Democracy Works!

@suzianne said
Manchin needs to change his party affiliation and be done with it.

You guys can see how you like him voting against you.

Hey....we finally agree on something!

@sh76 said
The citizens who elected Manchin overwhelmingly support the Republican agenda.

Then why didn't they vote republican?

@vivify said
His state overwhelmingly supports the Republican agenda; that doesn't mean his voters, who chose a Democrat, also do. That's like saying Raphael Warnock should support Republican agendas because Georgia has reliably been a red state.

His voters chose HIM, presumably at least partially because of his moderate bona-fides.

In the United States, you vote for the candidate, not for the party. If Manchin were not a moderate, he would have no chance of winning in WV.

This is a guy who won an election in 2010 against incredible GOP headwinds by running an ad in which he literally put a bullet-hole in legislation supported by his Democratic President.

YouTube

This is who Manchin is and who he has been his whole career. The narrative that he's suddenly shifting red due to oil subsidies is childish.

@metal-brain said
Then why didn't they vote republican?

Because they like Manchin, obviously.

@sh76 said
Because they like Manchin, obviously.

Not obvious. Maybe the republican opposition candidate was not liked. Who did he run against?

@averagejoe1 said
Got so excited, hit wrong button!
A 51/49 vote in the Senate. Some here have worried over our ‘losing democracy”.....well, we have seen democracy work big time. I love this country.

Yeah, Trump lost. It worked in 2020. Wait and see whether it still works in 2024.

@sh76 said
The citizens who elected Manchin overwhelmingly support the Republican agenda.

No, they don't at least in this case: https://www.filesforprogress.org/memos/bbb-wv.pdf

It's a small sample size but all the elements of BBB have majority support from West Virginians in this poll.

@averagejoe1 said
Got so excited, hit wrong button!
A 51/49 vote in the Senate. Some here have worried over our ‘losing democracy”.....well, we have seen democracy work big time. I love this country.

"The term "democracy" comes from two Greek words: "demos" (the people) and ""kratia" (power or authority). So of course DEMOCRACY is a form of government that gives power to the people." https://www.ushistory.org/gov/1c.asp

Here an anti-democratic institution is defeating the expressed will of the People.

Call it what you want but don't pretend it's a triumph of "democracy".

@vivify said
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-16/manchin-rakes-in-cash-from-energy-industry-some-gop-donors

"Senator Joe Manchin raked in hundreds of thousands of dollars from donors in the energy industry in the third quarter, including some from contributors who normally back Republicans".

All that's relevant to Manchin is what his donors want. He gets money ...[text shortened]... cracy" if you vote in favor of donors who line your pockets instead of the citizens who elected you.

Vivify, Vivify..... do youREALLY want a bunch of whataboutisms to follow your posts? So are you going to lead one of your street parades ( I have never been in a street) to stop contributions to political campaigns?!??!?

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

@sh76 said
His voters chose HIM, presumably at least partially because of his moderate bona-fides.

In the United States, you vote for the candidate, not for the party. If Manchin were not a moderate, he would have no chance of winning in WV.

This is a guy who won an election in 2010 against incredible GOP headwinds by running an ad in which he literally put a bullet-hole in legislati ...[text shortened]... en his whole career. The narrative that he's suddenly shifting red due to oil subsidies is childish.

Manchin is now opposing numerous programs he has supported in the past including effectively killing the monthly child credit.

Biden and the Democratic leadership have bent over backwards (largely because they've had to though you scoffed when I said back in January they could be as liberal as Manchin let them) to accommodate Manchin's concerns on this bill. For him to announce on Fox News that he'd vote against it is a rather shocking betrayal of the party and voters who supported it and him.

@quackquack said
Every politician has groups which support them otherwise the would not be elected. You seem to not support the coal industry (that's fine -- you certain are well with in your right to support or not support any cause you wish). But it does not surprise me that, to you, it seems like a repayment of a bribe when someone who receives money from the coal industry votes in f ...[text shortened]... government seems to want the opposite as the are literally supported by picking winners and losers.

I guess if you find teachers getting and giving political support as voters to a preferred candidate the same as an industry and a candidate scratching each other’s backs and scuppering any legislation that might hit their bottom line then yeah it’s complicated.
Try to remember that industries and corporations are not a legitimate part of the election process though.

@vivify said
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/16/1046778414/joe-manchins-objections-to-a-clean-energy-program-threaten-bidens-climate-promis

Joe Manchin's objections to a clean energy program threaten Biden's climate promises

You need to quit pretending Manchin "votes his mind". Manchin's *donors* are against environmental provisions; so that's how he votes.

Vivify, Suzianne, in her first post on this thread, implies that he should vote along party lines, .....that is, vote the way his Senate bosses tell him to vote. Starting with Schumer. .
You too are saying that he should do that, and not be swayed by any supportive influence, be it good or bad, lobbyists, WVirginia donors, voters, citizens, relatives, coal miners, or grocers who give him $100...??
So your little thoughtless club is now Suzianne, McHill and yourself.

@averagejoe1 said
Vivify, Suzianne, in her first post on this thread, implies that he should vote along party lines, .....that is, vote the way his Senate bosses tell him to vote. Starting with Schumer. .
You too are saying that he should do that, and not be swayed by any supportive influence, be it good or bad, lobbyists, WVirginia donors, voters, citizens, relatives, coal miners, ...[text shortened]... who give him $100...??
So your little thoughtless club is now Suzianne, McHill and yourself.

Here you go again trying to hide a corrupt planet killing merciless industry behind old Hank the grocer 🙄
The Grocer gets a vote in a democracy an industry doesn’t, but your obviously ok with Hank having his vote nullified by an industry with deep pockets.

@no1marauder said
Manchin is now opposing numerous programs he has supported in the past including effectively killing the monthly child credit.

Biden and the Democratic leadership have bent over backwards (largely because they've had to though you scoffed when I said back in January they could be as liberal as Manchin let them) to accommodate Manchin's concerns on this bill. For him to ...[text shortened]... he'd vote against it is a rather shocking betrayal of the party and voters who supported it and him.

Remember when I told you the establishment would use a corrupt democrat to do just this? I told you so.

@metal-brain said
Remember when I told you the establishment would use a corrupt democrat to do just this? I told you so.

I predict that the main components of BBB will be passed in the coming months despite this temporary setback.

The Dems might want to reach out to Collins, Murkowski and a few other Republicans to see what, if anything, in the bill they'd accept.