Democracy Works!

@no1marauder said
I predict that the main components of BBB will be passed in the coming months despite this temporary setback.

The Dems might want to reach out to Collins, Murkowski and a few other Republicans to see what, if anything, in the bill they'd accept.

So I take it that you believe Manchin is doing what he is doing out of pure ideology and nothing more. Is that correct?

I maintain he is doing it to serve the plutocracy. They only need a couple corrupt minions of the plutocracy that are democrats to trim the bill to make the parasitic elites happy and that is what he is doing. Both major political parties are corrupt. They could get more than two corrupt democrats if they wanted, but there is no reason to make it obvious they control most of congress on both sides of the aisle. 1 or 2 will do. Less of them for you to be angry with.

@metal-brain said
So I take it that you believe Manchin is doing what he is doing out of pure ideology and nothing more. Is that correct?

I maintain he is doing it to serve the plutocracy. They only need a couple corrupt minions of the plutocracy that are democrats to trim the bill to make the parasitic elites happy and that is what he is doing. Both major political parties are corrupt. ...[text shortened]... most of congress on both sides of the aisle. 1 or 2 will do. Less of them for you to be angry with.

Whatever.

I've made my prediction.

@sh76 said
In the United States, you vote for the candidate, not for the party. If Manchin were not a moderate, he would have no chance of winning in WV.

That's a pretty naïve statement. You think progressive Dems voted for Biden because of his policies? Or was it because he was the only Democrat they could choose?

Politicians in America often get elected for reasons having less to do with policy and more to do with how much campaign funds a politician was able to secure or what political players are in their corners.

Manchin, backed by the energy sector, has an advantage over any progressives who refuse to receive donations from them. His election may have had less to do with policy and more to do with the fact that he may have been seen as the Democrat with best chance to win; much like why Biden was picked in the primaries.

@mghrn55 said
Speaking of group think.......
Ever wonder why not a single GOP Senator has ever voted for this bill ?

Or anything else......
Can you name any GOP who looked, studied and voted with his mind on anything lately ?
Or just go with the Trumpism flow ?
Just look at any GOP who voted to impeach Trump.
Political exile soon followed.
Would you support reinstating Liz Cheney ?

Have not wondered, as the reasons are clear. You know, like ain’t got the money. It has too much fat in it, such as that. Google it and you will of course agree with me. A no-brainer.
Not a Trumpism flow, but rather, it is a Conservative flow of which you speak. Just to clarify, don’t you know.
But my whole point is that Dems are glued together, the mob. Republicans do think for themselves, like Manchin. I think he is a Republican in wimpy Dem clothing. Libs vote in one huge block, repubs in 50. Your example that all repubs were against it was because they are not so foolhardy as are the wasteful Dems, and each thought, separately that it was a mistake. Why would they vote for such a Bill? Did you read how horrible it is?

@no1marauder said
"The term "democracy" comes from two Greek words: "demos" (the people) and ""kratia" (power or authority). So of course DEMOCRACY is a form of government that gives power to the people." https://www.ushistory.org/gov/1c.asp

Here an anti-democratic institution is defeating the expressed will of the People.

Call it what you want but don't pretend it's a triumph of "democracy".

It most certainly is.

@quackquack said
Every politician has groups which support them otherwise the would not be elected. But it does not surprise me that, to you, it seems like a repayment of a bribe when someone who receives money from the coal industry votes in favor or coal's interest. It could of course be that they both the politician and the industry see eye to eye on the issue.
I was just asking if y ...[text shortened]... the teacher union to support a mayoral candidate and in return the candidate gives them a big raise.

Supporting a teacher's union would be altruistic; supporting an oil company is not. Policies benefiting teachers in turn help children and students; policies benefiting oil companies benefit the executives.

Who benefits from Manchin opposing Clean Energy policies? No one, other than the fossil fuel industry, which supports Manchin.

Manchin isn't looking out for society or his voters. He's only looking out for his donors, who are only interested in their own profits.

@vivify said
Supporting a teacher's union would be altruistic; supporting an oil company is not. Policies benefiting teachers in turn help children and students; policies benefiting oil companies benefit the executives.

Who benefits from Manchin opposing Clean Energy policies? No one, other than the fossil fuel industry, which supports Manchin.

Manchin isn't looking out for soc ...[text shortened]... or his voters. He's only looking out for his donors, who are only interested in their own profits.

The man is a patriot. You are wrong.

@averagejoe1 said
The man is a patriot. You are wrong.

Manchin is a corporate shill for the energy sector. You're wrong.

@averagejoe1 said
You speak ‘group think’, Ponderosa. A guy like me (I think independently) can hardly converse about your terse comment. Please clarify how you find fault with a man who looks at, studies, and votes his mind, on an issue.

Everyone, the US Senate met to vote on a far-reaching proposal presented by the Democrats. One of the senators, his party affiliation being quite ir ...[text shortened]... have to explain their body politic on every issue. Whew. This post was for the Americans to savor.

The reactionary party of NO strikes again.
Manchin will, most likely change
parties or, as an Independent,
caucus with Republicans as he is
certain to receive no DNC support.

@no1marauder said
Manchin is now opposing numerous programs he has supported in the past including effectively killing the monthly child credit.

Biden and the Democratic leadership have bent over backwards (largely because they've had to though you scoffed when I said back in January they could be as liberal as Manchin let them) to accommodate Manchin's concerns on this bill. For him to ...[text shortened]... he'd vote against it is a rather shocking betrayal of the party and voters who supported it and him.

The Left has been flaying Manchin alive for months. If he gave them the finger a bit by announcing on Fox News, he hasn't given back 1/100 of what he's gotten.

I'll admit to being pleasantly surprised by the backbones of Manchin and Sinema.

@sh76 said
I'll admit to being pleasantly surprised by the backbones of Manchin

It doesn't take backbone to obey corporate donors.

@vivify said
That's a pretty naïve statement. You think progressive Dems voted for Biden because of his policies? Or was it because he was the only Democrat they could choose?

Politicians in America often get elected for reasons having less to do with policy and more to do with how much campaign funds a politician was able to secure or what political players are in their corners. ...[text shortened]... been seen as the Democrat with best chance to win; much like why Biden was picked in the primaries.

That may be part of the reason Manchin wins primaries in WV, but he wins general elections against Republicans in WV in large part because he's moderate.

@sh76 said
That may be part of the reason Manchin wins primaries in WV, but he wins general elections against Republicans in WV in large part because he's moderate.

Even if we assume what you say is true:

https://www.npr.org/2021/10/16/1046778414/joe-manchins-objections-to-a-clean-energy-program-threaten-bidens-climate-promis

Joe Manchin's objections to a clean energy program threaten Biden's climate promises

Manchin is clearly motived by those who give him money, not his voters. There's nothing "moderate" about objecting to clean energy to serve donors.

@sh76 said
The Left has been flaying Manchin alive for months. If he gave them the finger a bit by announcing on Fox News, he hasn't given back 1/100 of what he's gotten.

I'll admit to being pleasantly surprised by the backbones of Manchin and Sinema.

That's BS. The Left played it in good faith by supporting the infrastructure package even after it was decoupled from BBB (contrary to agreements made earlier in the year). In return, Manchin was supposed to support a striped down version of BBB which he largely got. For him to declare himself a "no" vote and to do it for a right wing propaganda source is a betrayal of his commitments, his party and his voters.

The American People did not elect a Democratic President and Democratic majorities in both Houses in Congress with the expectation that nothing would get accomplished regarding help for working families, tax reform, climate change and the other elements of BBB which Democrats ran on and won with.

@no1marauder said
That's BS. The Left played it in good faith by supporting the infrastructure package even after it was decoupled from BBB (contrary to agreements made earlier in the year). In return, Manchin was supposed to support a striped down version of BBB which he largely got. For him to declare himself a "no" vote and to do it for a right wing propaganda source is a betrayal of hi ...[text shortened]... ilies, tax reform, climate change and the other elements of BBB which Democrats ran on and won with.

dems dont have a majority in both houses