08 Dec 21
@averagejoe1 said"Then should not 'Food' be affordable by everyone?"
Then should not 'Food' be affordable by everyone? Why stop with medicine? Zahlanzi, do all of your posts imply that your economic ideas, whatever they are, should apply to all societies of the world ? I think that that is the logical conclusion of your premise. Belgium, New Guinea, USA, Timbuktoo, all one real happy family. Of course, a world of dependent peoples. ...[text shortened]... my life, compared to the life of the Uber driver.? Do you actually think that they are connected.?
yes, it should be
"do all of your posts imply that your economic ideas, whatever they are, should apply to all societies of the world"
they should
"Of course, a world of dependent peoples"
you vastly overestimate how interesting this argument is and i am getting pretty bored with it
"And why would someone in such a society try to better themselves "
personal growth. ambition to be a better version of themselves. or simply to become a millionaire and afford a shinier car.
"Some are not, and have to budget to afford their medicines."
They shouldn't have to. Nobody should die because they can't afford insulin because some human garbage decided it should cost like 400. That it would be better for them if one paid 400 and 3 others die than to sell at 50.
"If they are destitute,, the USA will take care of them...."
It doesn't.
"...but they will NOT buy them a yacht"
and nobody said it should buy them a yacht
" my employees all come into my office demanding a part ownership, I will simply fire them and hire someone else"
well first of all companies routinely offer shares in the company to retain their workers so i don't know what you get so worked up about it, even as a ridiculous scenario you dreamt up
secondly, in a civilized country you couldn't fire them, only refuse them. They can then decide what to do, if they are going to go on strike or even quit because in a civilized country it's not you who offers them healthcare, they have it from the government because it's a right. And then you get the absolute joy of spending more money hiring new people and train them which might even be hard considering you didn't offer any incentive why they should work for you. And they can unionize with other workers in that industry and boycott your business.
"As to 'being able to afford' amazon or fedex, they just live a diff kind of life style"
This boring argument again.
"I planned ahead to be able to afford the life I live. "
And you got lucky and it worked out. Someone might not be so lucky. Someone might lose their job one day, get evicted the next day and then be homeless and in a chain of events that would lead to be damn near impossible to get back on their feet alone. Someone might get cancer and lose their entire life savings to afford medicine. You have americans begging for their lives on GoFundMe so they can afford insulin or chemo. What kind of a dystopian shthole country is that
That's why we have society and governments and social norms. So that the most unfortunate of us don't get left behind. And so that sociopaths like you don't hoard more and more wealth (eh you're probably some poor redneck from Whogivesafukville Alabama) which they got through circumstances ligning up just right
"Zahalanxi, what do you want to do about my life, compared to the life of the Uber driver.?"
You must pay more taxes if you're so damn rich you have a business with multiple workers so that uber driver doesn't have to work extra hours to make ends meet. You must pay your workers more so they don't have to become uber drivers. Uber needs to pay more taxes and treat their drivers better.
"Do you actually think that they are connected.?"
Yes. It's all fukin connected that's why you live in a society and not alone on some damn mountain.
If one person suffers it should be a problem for all of us.
@zahlanzi saidYou are rabid Socialist, I am Staunch 100% capitalist. That is why we jehaw, we each find the other absolutely unbelievable. I can clear most of your points by saying that our govt. should totally support the poor people you talk about. I think there are 40M of them, maybe 42M with open borders. Everyone else live their lives.
"Then should not 'Food' be affordable by everyone?"
yes, it should be
"do all of your posts imply that your economic ideas, whatever they are, should apply to all societies of the world"
they should
"Of course, a world of dependent peoples"
you vastly overestimate how interesting this argument is and i am getting pretty bored with it
"And why would someone in suc ...[text shortened]... and not alone on some damn mountain.
If one person suffers it should be a problem for all of us.
But your last sentence above wants Joe the Plumber to help support someone who qualifies for govt help...part of the 40M. IF the govt takes my idea and covers those people, then Joe can get on with his business? Do you suggest he cover....well, just anybody? Someone beyond the 40M? Who??
You may be all about a safety net, like Marauder. He never has defined it. There are 12M unfilled jobs, so I believe that your laid-off people can get another job.
The Constitution is the decider of 'Should', and it does not say that food 'should be affordable'. I totally disagree. The free market decides what food costs. If you manipulate that cost,, it opens the door for you socialists to transform our economy (Like Obama Said He Would Do!.Crreepy). What other costs will you manipulate, Zhalanzi? Do you not see danger there, from freedom loving capitalists? Naaa, I guess you don't.
What you suggest will create a society where it will be impossible to get rich. Joe the Plumber has to pay more taxes to cover the wastrel down the street. You must want a society where one just gets by. How sad.
I agree that pharmaceuticals are out of control and that our law should be corrected to allow more open markets, or competition to keep costs down. Ahhhh, but you want govt control. What else would you control, once you nationalize the drug industry?? Brrrrr
The USA does have programs for the destitute.
As to me firing employees, I can do it all day long. I dont know what you mean there. This is a civilized society. I can do it.
You say,, once again, like Bernie, that healthcare is a right. Pitiful, you and Bernie. Say it all you want. Maybe in a socialist country like Romania.
How can people be 'left behind' with all the opportunity here? Don't get you there. Ever been here? If two guys start out in the same family, one is successful, one is not, are you going to step in and do something about it?? What, pray tell? You will do nothing. And, that is the way it is in the USA. Call it lucky or unlucky, whatever,,,,,,Life aint perfect. Except in Romania, apparently .....#63 of the list of best countries. We are #6.
As to taxes, we already pay a lot. So, how much more should the rich pay? How much? For what?
You can guess if I am a successful of-white or not, but so what if I am a poor guy in a trailer? It does not change my points in these threads. And I don't find you boring. Amazing, yes!
Do you know that non-citizens ...NON citizens....are going to be allowed to vote in New York. If I drive through Romania tomorrow, could I stop and vote in your elections? An example of the liberal influence, the blue wave. Wait till you get a load of the horrible Stacey Abrams who will be the next governor of Georgia. Lord help us.
When you say food should be affordable by everyone, how would you accomplish that? Govt stamps for everyone? Nationalizing the food industry? And then, the truck industry, which delivers the food?
08 Dec 21
@AverageJoe1
NONE of that is ever going to happen but wingnuts like you keep pushing the big Zombie republican LIES, WE WON"T GIVE YOU MONEY YOU LAZY ASSSWIPE, YOU WILL JUST GET STONED AND PLAY VIDEO GAMES ALL DAY=.
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08 Dec 21
@zahlanzi saidWow, how eloquent you are...
"Then should not 'Food' be affordable by everyone?"
yes, it should be
"do all of your posts imply that your economic ideas, whatever they are, should apply to all societies of the world"
they should
"Of course, a world of dependent peoples"
you vastly overestimate how interesting this argument is and i am getting pretty bored with it
"And why would someone in suc ...[text shortened]... and not alone on some damn mountain.
If one person suffers it should be a problem for all of us.
I routinely throw a ''ten thumbs up''
on a favorite posting but, what you say here
cannot be awarded mere 'thumbs,' it is, to
me what Ronald Reagan spoke of. America beng
''A Shining City in a Hill,'' and the words inscribed on
The Statue of Liberty, ''Give us your tired and your poor,
your huddled masses yearning.......''
-------BRAVO MAESTRO-----
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- Moves
- 251103
08 Dec 21
@averagejoe1 saidAnd 100% less than average
You are rabid Socialist, I am Staunch 100% capitalist. That is why we jehaw, we each find the other absolutely unbelievable. I can clear most of your points by saying that our govt. should totally support the poor people you talk about. I think there are 40M of them, maybe 42M with open borders. Everyone else live their lives.
But your last sentence above wants Joe ...[text shortened]... everyone? Nationalizing the food industry? And then, the truck industry, which delivers the food?
09 Dec 21
@averagejoe1 said" But your last sentence above wants Joe the Plumber to help support someone who qualifies for govt help...part of the 40M."
You are rabid Socialist, I am Staunch 100% capitalist. That is why we jehaw, we each find the other absolutely unbelievable. I can clear most of your points by saying that our govt. should totally support the poor people you talk about. I think there are 40M of them, maybe 42M with open borders. Everyone else live their lives.
But your last sentence above wants Joe ...[text shortened]... everyone? Nationalizing the food industry? And then, the truck industry, which delivers the food?
Congratulations, this is the one thousandth time you got me to say "no, not joe the plumber but Greedy McFukface, the billionaire" and you're a winner. There is no prize, just shame. Shame that you can't piece 2 ideas together, shame that you keep forgetting what i am saying or maybe you're just lazy and think anyone on this forum is fooled if you invent strawmen. As if any leftist wants to tax the poor or the middle class before taxing Bezos.
"You may be all about a safety net, like Marauder. He never has defined it"
Any moderately educated person knows what the fuk that is. You keep saying "he has never defined it", all i can hear instead is you saying "I am ignorant and proud of it, i am too lazy to educate myself"
"The Constitution is the decider of 'Should', and it does not say that food 'should be affordable'"
No the fuk it isn't. We are. We make the constitution, we make fukin amendments to it and we repeal them when they are no longer needed
"As to taxes, we already pay a lot. So, how much more should the rich pay? How much? For what?"
70% for everything above let's say 100 million. For a start. We can slowly go to Eisenhower levels, at a time where families could own their own house, a car and send their children to college on one factory worker salary.
"How can people be 'left behind' with all the opportunity here?"
There is little opportunity there. I had opportunity here, in Romania. If i were born in the US with my family working the same jobs, I would have had a totally different life. I wouldn't get to go to college because my father can't afford it. I sure as hell can't afford to buy a house. I probably live in some industrial little town, unable to leave it. I probably get a job at the only factory in town and become unemployed when some billionaire fukhead decides it's better to just close it and move the jobs abroad.
I would like to think I wouldn't become a trumpist but I am not that arrogant as to dismiss the possibility that a lack of education i can't afford in a small town i can't leave wouldn't leave me bitter and willing to find someone to blame.
So yeah, you keep bringing up Romania as a negative (even that reveals just how much of a retard you are, comparing the number one power in the world with wherever Romania stands now) but I for one am eternally grateful i was born in Romania and not the US. There isn't a thing i am missing here that i could get in the US and i don't give two cents you can't comprehend that not all are envious of americans.
09 Dec 21
@zahlanzi saidYou say above that “You couldn’t fire them”
"Then should not 'Food' be affordable by everyone?"
yes, it should be
"do all of your posts imply that your economic ideas, whatever they are, should apply to all societies of the world"
they should
"Of course, a world of dependent peoples"
you vastly overestimate how interesting this argument is and i am getting pretty bored with it
"And why would someone in suc ...[text shortened]... and not alone on some damn mountain.
If one person suffers it should be a problem for all of us.
Since I can fire someone who works for me, can you explain?
09 Dec 21
@averagejoe1 saidSure can. The US has laws that allows an employer to fire workers at will. This coupled with the fact that health insurance is provided by the employer and that it's very hard to create worker unions creates an environment where the employee has little power and the employer has most.
You say above that “You couldn’t fire them”
Since I can fire someone who works for me, can you explain?
In a civilized country (not you) you can't unilaterally fire someone just because. You have to prove they aren't doing their job. If you can't, you have to say you don't have that position in your company anymore and actually are forbidden to hire on that spot for X years. You must negotiate with the employee for a severance package which consists of multiple monthly wages.
In a civilized country, the worker, the person with the least amount of power between the two is protected. By the government. Which is its job.
09 Dec 21
1 edit
@zahlanzi saidNanny State. Exactly. Just how far does a Nanny tell an employer, with subjective reasoning, how to run its business? And you say you are not socialist?
Sure can. The US has laws that allows an employer to fire workers at will. This coupled with the fact that health insurance is provided by the employer and that it's very hard to create worker unions creates an environment where the employee has little power and the employer has most.
In a civilized country (not you) you can't unilaterally fire someone just because. You ...[text shortened]... on with the least amount of power between the two is protected. By the government. Which is its job.
These regs of Romania are why your country is stifled from freedom to grow.
Anyway, I can fire at will, Romanians cannot. If you own a pillow factory, would you rather have rules of the USA government , or Romanian ‘overseeing’ govt? Brrrr. Like, just who in the hell makes decisions about your company.
Will respond shortly to your post above.
09 Dec 21
You mention unions above as if unions are just an automatic savior of the world. Amazon has continuously voted down having unions. So which is it. And why mention unions?
And health insurance. A person chooses a job after deciding which companies have the best insurance programs. They CHOOSE, Zahlanzi. Govt doesn’t choose for them, nor does it tell employers what the hell to do.
09 Dec 21
@averagejoe1 said"Exactly. Just how far does a Nanny tell an employer, with subjective reasoning, how to run its business? "
Nanny State. Exactly. Just how far does a Nanny tell an employer, with subjective reasoning, how to run its business? And you say you are not socialist?
These regs of Romania are why your country is stifled from freedom to grow.
Anyway, I can fire at will, Romanians cannot. If you own a pillow factory, would you rather have rules of the USA government , or Ro ...[text shortened]... t who in the hell makes decisions about your company.
Will respond shortly to your post above.
At least in this way.
"And you say you are not socialist?"
I am not. Just like the germans aren't, canadians, australians, sweedes, british, french, and pretty much everyone daring to enact worker protections.
"These regs of Romania are why your country is stifled from freedom to grow."
People could fill libraries with stuff you don't know about Romania, capitalism, socialism and pretty much everything. And they have.
"If you own a pillow factory, would you rather have rules of the USA government , or Romanian ‘overseeing’ govt?"
Since i am not a selfish ashole, i wouldn't mind having rules that protect my employees as well. It wouldn't even affect me because i would already provide my workers with those protections anyway. But it's a good thing there are laws about that since some people won't do the moral thing. German, canadian, french, etc business owners don't seem to mind either and they do alright.
"Like, just who in the hell makes decisions about your company"
You do. As soon as you comply with all the regulations imposed on you by a decent society that takes care of all its people not just the very wealthy. You get to make a smaller number of dollars and your workers don't starve/go bankrupt/lose healthcare/get evicted.
I would say the overall good that is achieved through these government regulations outweigh the "bad" inflicted on you, an incompetent business owner who can't succeed at his business except through exploiting his workers. Plenty others who can. If you can't provide a decent wage, decent working conditions, retain your workers (not through coercion) you don't deserve to stay in business.
09 Dec 21
@averagejoe1 said"A person chooses a job after deciding which companies have the best insurance programs. They CHOOSE, Zahlanzi. "
You mention unions above as if unions are just an automatic savior of the world. Amazon has continuously voted down having unions. So which is it. And why mention unions?
And health insurance. A person chooses a job after deciding which companies have the best insurance programs. They CHOOSE, Zahlanzi. Govt doesn’t choose for them, nor does it tell employers what the hell to do.
Pff., that's such an ignorant and outright dumb statement that i can't help but laugh.
It's increasingly evident that, except a few, more and more people don't choose jack. They get into a job, any job, to pay their huge college debt and/or to put food on their table. They get into a job because otherwise they get evicted from the rented apartment that is too expensive. They get a job because some health insurance is better than no health insurance.
And once they do get that job? The employers is free to change providers whenever they feel like and the employees don't get to "choose" jack.
"Govt doesn’t choose for them"
It doesn't in civilized countries either. It just provides a default health insurance. You are free to get on any private health insurance you want or go to a private clinic, but if you are unable to afford any of that, the government says : "don't worry, we got you covered, we won't let you die like a dog in the street"
09 Dec 21
1 edit
@zahlanzi saidNeither you nor Marauder defines the safety net. For one thing, who qualifies to fall in to the net? A wastrel was interviewed on a Hawaii beach, surfing, bragging how he can live off the govt programs to the tune of about $40K a year. This man would qualify for your net. Enough said.
" But your last sentence above wants Joe the Plumber to help support someone who qualifies for govt help...part of the 40M."
Congratulations, this is the one thousandth time you got me to say "no, not joe the plumber but Greedy McFukface, the billionaire" and you're a winner. There is no prize, just shame. Shame that you can't piece 2 ideas together, shame that you keep fo ...[text shortened]... get in the US and i don't give two cents you can't comprehend that not all are envious of americans.
You are quite casual about the constitution. The framers whole purpose was to get govt out of our lives. Your 'amend and repeal' statement above, given what you say, should also include ADD govt controls. You know it, I know it. Zhalanzi, that is not what Ben Franklin had in mind. Were he here, he would SUBTRACT that which you would like to put in there. Sorry, I just dont want Zhalanzi and Bernie telling me how to live my life. You know that I am right.
So, you are the first lib here with a number for the rich to pay. You are going to tell a man that he is subject to limits on how much he can make. It is too much for me to bear this morning, I will start a thread on it and watch the gnashing of teeth!
I cannot fairly comment on your life, but as to college, etc, my family was average, I borrowed for the last half of college, and for all my law school tuition. It took 10 years to pay it back. As to a house, I got a 90% mortgage and bought one.
As you say 'unable to leave' a town, it is easy to leave a town in the USA, so I can't comment on that. Nor can I comment on maybe becoming unemployed, as it would be impossible in the USA to not find a job. And another one after that.
I apologize for deriding Romania, but you called us a S--hole, and I immediately defended with my response, looking up the 'best countries' chart. Nothing personal, just that I love the USA and don't take kindly to such remarks. Apologies. I have to say that more than 50% of this world are envious of Americans. Just having 4 totally different regions, and TWO oceans makes us quite great.
Today, our lib govt let the man who burned down the $500,000 Christmas tree at Fox right back out on the street. If someone is NOT envious of our country, it is because of our liberal leadership.