Trump 2, Women 0

@divegeester said
I don’t see how having a degree in Taiwanese basket weaving bears any relation to understanding the political simplicity of wanting a devolvement of EU membership based on independence. The Scott’s, Irish and Welsh all want political independence from the UK and I don’t blame them for being uneducated. Your point is just a throwback to the hackneyed insults of 2015/16 and the referendum fallout.

The Welsh want independence? Scotland had their referendum, they stayed. NI if it voted tomorrow would imo stay as well.

What is the percentage of people who have a degree that have a silly David Beckham style degree? If you're trying to say that having a degree doesn't make you smart and not having one makes you dumb etc, then a completely agree. It just just a fact of the Brexit referendum that the majority of people who were educated voted to stay. Make of that what you will... The majority voted to leave. 52% majority. That's the problem with majorities, they're often not very high.

I'm not bitter about more people voting to leave, I'm bitter about it having a referendum in the first place. Should never have happened.

@A-Unique-Nickname said
I'm not going to answer for Dive but the people who I know who voted to leave (which isn't many) did so because they thought the UK would have more control over their borders. Which I guess is true but it left a massive hole in the job market, which is now being filled by mostly Asian and African countries. Nothing wrong with that however try getting a non skilled w ...[text shortened]... l in other EU countries and stopping people from the EU coming in for non skilled jobs is just daft.

I heard you wanted to 'be like Switzerland.' 😆

Does that still apply? If so, why isn't it working?

@divegeester said
I made my decision in principle as long ago as 1992 and the signing of the Maastricht Treaty by the then Conservative Party, and then in practice in 2016 to reverse it. The principle being similar to the general one of devolution here in the UK, whereby nation states want independence from outside political power blocks. Essentially keeping democratic power as local to th ...[text shortened]... t acting upon the democratic will of their electorate. It will eventually be the west’s undoing imo.

Same question re: the Swiss. Did you ever live there and try to see how they did it? 😀

@A-Unique-Nickname said
I'm not bitter about more people voting to leave, I'm bitter about it having a referendum in the first place. Should never have happened.

The referendum should have been on the Maastricht Treaty in the first place. John Major had no direct mandate from the British people to migrate powers from Westminster to Brussels; he was hapless PM and brought down the Tories imo. Blair was primarily responsible for then opening our borders to cheap Labour and subsequent governments made it worse, especially that chinless wonder Cameron.

@spruce112358 said
Same question re: the Swiss. Did you ever live there and try to see how they did it? 😀

How they did what?

@A-Unique-Nickname said
The majority voted to leave. 52% majority. That's the problem with majorities, they're often not very high.

I'm not bitter about more people voting to leave, I'm bitter about it having a referendum in the first place. Should never have happened.

The problem with a slim majority abruptly voting to secede is that some people's lives and businesses are thrown into chaos.

Being part of a group protects certain rights, and any time a majority 'votes away' protected rights of a minority, that spells trouble.

Secession should be possible, but also slow and predictable. 🙂

@divegeester said
How they did what?

Succeed in living contentedly separate from the European Union.

@divegeester said
The referendum should have been on the Maastricht Treaty in the first place. John Major had no direct mandate from the British people to migrate powers from Westminster to Brussels; he was hapless PM and brought down the Tories imo. Blair was primarily responsible for then opening our borders to cheap Labour and subsequent governments made it worse, especially that chinless wonder Cameron.

You never voted to join the European Union?

@spruce112358 said
Succeed in living contentedly separate from the European Union.

They never signed up in the first place so don’t have divorce issues. They do have immigration problems though and some disputes with Germany over it so I’ve read.

@spruce112358 said
You never voted to join the European Union?

No. The Maastricht treaty was signed by John Major the Conservative Prime Minister in 1992 after taking over leadership of the party from Margaret Thatcher. So he wasn’t elected by the British people to be PM (this is normal protocol but is fraught with issues if the assigned new PM makes big constitutional changes) and did not have a mandate to sign up whatsoever. Thatcher was elected PM on an non pro Europe treaties basis, so the whole thing was not democratic and resentment brewed for decades cumulating in the Brexit vote in 2016.

@divegeester said
No. The Maastricht treaty was signed by John Major the Conservative Prime Minister in 1992 after taking over leadership of the party from Margaret Thatcher. So he wasn’t elected by the British people to be PM (this is normal protocol but is fraught with issues if the assigned new PM makes big constitutional changes) and did not have a mandate to sign up whatsoever. Thatch ...[text shortened]... le thing was not democratic and resentment brewed for decades cumulating in the Brexit vote in 2016.

That's crazy. What was the justification?

Parliament agreed, I assume.

In the US, treaties are negotiated by the Executive and ratified by 2/3 of the Senate. But no treaty could hand Constitutional (i.e. law-making) authority over to another body (e.g. the EU). That would require an amendment to the Constitution which must pass House and Senate and 3/4 of the state legislatures.

@kmax87 said
So cancel culture is a left-leaning liberal thing?

Of course it is, and I think you know that.

Not exclusively, of course, but primarily.

@sh76 said
Of course it is, and I think you know that.

Not exclusively, of course, but primarily.

It's funny that even while railing against it, the Republican Party has become the cancel culture party.

Anything that does not conform to evangelical nationalism is getting banned or cancelled as we speak. These lugnuts are proud of burning books for for sake.

Who was the party of Mcarthyism? Are you a communist or ever thought like a communist? Well you can't be a free thinker here. Don't be a Dixie Chick here. Don't be a Colin Kaepernik. Where do you get the idea that this is the land of the free?

@divegeester said
I made my decision in principle as long ago as 1992 and the signing of the Maastricht Treaty by the then Conservative Party, and then in practice in 2016 to reverse it. The principle being similar to the general one of devolution here in the UK, whereby nation states want independence from outside political power blocks. Essentially keeping democratic power as local to th ...[text shortened]... t acting upon the democratic will of their electorate. It will eventually be the west’s undoing imo.

Would you say that there are millions of Brits who are worse off now? Just seeing what happened at the borders and how that impacted many businesses large and small who had expanded in the EU.

Is it because you can afford to be ideological about it, because it did not impact your personal situation, either way?

@kmax87 said
Would you say that there are millions of Brits who are worse off now? Just seeing what happened at the borders and how that impacted many businesses large and small who had expanded in the EU.

Is it because you can afford to be ideological about it, because it did not impact your personal situation, either way?

What’s happening at the UK borders has nothing to do with Brexit and would be exactly the same without Brexit.

Ideological about Brexit? No. I’m ideological about sovereignty for all nation states based on the principle and best practices of Western democracy.