31 Oct 23
@sh76 saidhttps://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/7/19/five-ways-israeli-law-discriminates-against-palestinians
Yes, it's nationalist and yes it's a homeland for Jews. It does not support "ethnic cleansing." That is a malicious falsehood. One in 5 Israeli citizens are Arabs and they have full and equal rights (unlike the Jews who were forced out of Arab countries).
Setting up a haven for Jews who don't want to be massacred is not "racist" in any sense of the word except in a Utopian "w ...[text shortened]... ay, 'O Muslim, O servant of God, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."
Now THAT's racism.
31 Oct 23
@sh76 saidhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_freedom_of_movement
What are you talking about? What papers?
Israel does not even allow Israeli Jews to marry Palestinians. I posted a link about it previously on this thread. The 2.3 million inhabitants in Gaza are mostly descendants of Palestinian refugees driven from their homes in 1948. Their children learned how the Zionists stole their land so just drop that equal crap. You are just repeating misinformation.
31 Oct 23
1 edit
@shavixmir saidSo the Jews in general are racist for not wanting to lose political control of the state of Israel to non Jews and the Zionist thing was a red herring.
Oh, so all the Palistinians have to do is convert to Judaism and they’re all allowed to stay in Israel. And if they don’t, they are not.
And that’s not racist?
Religionist / discrimantory / ethnic cleansic / take yer pick.
Yes it would be racist, IMO if they said they would not accept Arab or say African Jews even though they adhered to Judaism and identified as Jews.
They are prohibiting people on the basis of religion which may or may not be better or worse than racism.
One of the justifications and an impetus for the establishment of the state of Israel as a Jewish state was the lives lost in the holocaust due to other states refusing to take Jewish refugees from Nazi controlled Europe. Imagine a future pogrom where a now Muslim dominated Israeli government was asked to take hordes of Jews into their state
Racism is not a very good fit for the animosity between Jews and non Jews regarding Israeli citizenship even though in effect it results in a race bar for all intents and purposes
31 Oct 23
@metal-brain saidDo you understand 'cause and effect'? I think you are leaving that out. The Jews treat the Palestinians like animals. Can you think of a reason why?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_freedom_of_movement
Israel does not even allow Israeli Jews to marry Palestinians. I posted a link about it previously on this thread. The 2.3 million inhabitants in Gaza are mostly descendants of Palestinian refugees driven from their homes in 1948. Their children learned how the Zionists stole their land so just drop that equal crap. You are just repeating misinformation.
Let me help you. From the beginning when Jews started returning to Palestine and bought land to settle, the Palestinians were harassing them. The terrorism started then and never stopped. So the Jews want nothing to do with them. The Jews do not support intermarriages or mixed marriages with them. I see nothing wrong with that.
31 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidYou're kinda leaving out the part where the Jews have declared they wish to rule over Palestine and are being allowed to move there by a foreign colonial power precisely for that purpose. It's hardly surprising that the People who lived in Palestine would resist that.
Do you understand 'cause and effect'? I think you are leaving that out. The Jews treat the Palestinians like animals. Can you think of a reason why?
Let me help you. From the beginning when Jews started returning to Palestine and bought land to settle, the Palestinians were harassing them. The terrorism started then and never stopped. So the Jews want nothing to do wi ...[text shortened]... he Jews do not support intermarriages or mixed marriages with them. I see nothing wrong with that.
31 Oct 23
@metal-brain saidThe 20% I referenced are not the Palestinians. They are Israeli Arabs, who have full and equal citizenship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_freedom_of_movement
Israel does not even allow Israeli Jews to marry Palestinians. I posted a link about it previously on this thread. The 2.3 million inhabitants in Gaza are mostly descendants of Palestinian refugees driven from their homes in 1948. Their children learned how the Zionists stole their land so just drop that equal crap. You are just repeating misinformation.
31 Oct 23
@no1marauder saidI dont recall that at all. The British were the governing authority in those lands from 1917 to around 1948. Their role as ..the administrating power for the Overseas Territories, the UK has a responsibility under the UN Charter to support their political, economic, and social development and self-government. [Google]
You're kinda leaving out the part where the Jews have declared they wish to rule over Palestine and are being allowed to move there by a foreign colonial power precisely for that purpose. It's hardly surprising that the People who lived in Palestine would resist that.
So since the two parties were always at war, the British divided the land [approved by the UN] and left. Both parties were free to set up separate states in their territories and govern themselves.
I dont know where you got that nonsense .. the Jews have declared they wish to rule over Palestine
The Jews ruled themselves in their portion
Palestinian people ruled themselves in their portion
31 Oct 23
@rajk999 saidWow. You're very ignorant of the actual history.
I dont recall that at all. The British were the governing authority in those lands from 1917 to around 1948. Their role as ..the administrating power for the Overseas Territories, the UK has a responsibility under the UN Charter to support their political, economic, and social development and self-government. [Google]
So since the two parties were always at war, the ...[text shortened]...
The Jews ruled themselves in their portion
Palestinian people ruled themselves in their portion
You might want to check out the history of the Zionist movement with particular attention to the Balfour Declaration of 1917.
After you do, you might be able to intelligently discuss the real history.
31 Oct 23
1 edit
@no1marauder
https://www.britannica.com/event/Balfour-Declaration
It says that declaration was made moot by WW2 and the founding of the state of Israel in 1948. Besides, that declaration was from the League of Nations, a defunct organization superseded by the United Nations.
I googled the question, does the United Nations honor agreements made by the League of nations but got no direct reply, just the history of the League of Nations.
31 Oct 23
1 edit
@no1marauder saidTelling me to go study the history is lame.
Wow. You're very ignorant of the actual history.
You might want to check out the history of the Zionist movement with particular attention to the Balfour Declaration of 1917.
After you do, you might be able to intelligently discuss the real history.
In a nutshell:
- The British partitioned the land so that both parties can live separately
- The Jews agreed
- The Palestinians disagreed and instead wanted ALL, with FULL CONTROL
- Palestinians with the help of their surrounding Arab friends attacked the Jews, hoping to drive them out
- They failed.
What is your version of the actual history.
31 Oct 23
@sonhouse saidWell that is true as well. But the British had full authority over overseas territories and could have done whatever they pleased within reason, without UN approval. The UN is is just a rubber stamp for the partition which they did. The land was partitioned 53/47 but the Palestinians wanted 0/100. To this day that is the situation. Hamas has clearly stated in their charter they will not rest until they have reclaimed every sq inch of historical Palestine. I guess they will not rest.
@no1marauder
https://www.britannica.com/event/Balfour-Declaration
It says that declaration was made moot by WW2 and the founding of the state of Israel in 1948. Besides, that declaration was from the League of Nations, a defunct organization superseded by the United Nations.
I googled the question, does the United Nations honor agreements made by the League of nations but got no direct reply, just the history of the League of Nations.
31 Oct 23
@no1marauder saidy6ou might want to get current with 1948 events
Wow. You're very ignorant of the actual history.
You might want to check out the history of the Zionist movement with particular attention to the Balfour Declaration of 1917.
After you do, you might be able to intelligently discuss the real history.
@rajk999 saidWell since you obviously don't know it, I think pointing out the real history is important. And you are trying to move goalposts by bitching about Palestinian opposition once "the Jews starting buying land" in the area and then trying to jump to a distorted version of the events of 1947-48.
Telling me to go study the history is lame.
In a nutshell:
- The British partitioned the land so that both parties can live separately
- The Jews agreed
- The Palestinians disagreed and instead wanted ALL, with FULL CONTROL
- Palestinians with the help of their surrounding Arab friends attacked the Jews, hoping to drive them out
- They failed.
What is your version of the actual history.
So I'm here to help; read this: https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/
After you do, you'll know that the British Empire promised the Zionists a "homeland" in Palestine when Jews were a tiny minority and that the Balfour Declaration (later added to the Palestine Mandate) said nothing about the political rights of non-Jews in that "homeland". Both Zionists and Palestinians took that to mean a Jewish State controlling much, if not all of, Palestine and ruling over the Palestinians there. So, unsurprisingly, the latter resisted that as much as they could.
You also fail to mention that far from dividing up Palestine into entirely separate States the.1947 UN plan would have given the 1/3 Jewish minority almost 60% of Palestine in an area that would have contained almost 45% non-Jews while the Palestine area would have only had a tiny minority of Jews. Of course, the Palestine People rejected such an unfair division.
That's real history.