Originally posted by Feivel
Why does it shock me? What gives you the idea that I was shocked? now as to the mark of the beast, is it in any way "related" (as in opposite) the marl of god? If it is, the mark of god is clearly spelled out in the two passages I cited and in numerous other old testament references. A barcode is an interesting concept but not one I can personally reconcile with the bible.
Feivel
You don't think it is an usuall coincidence, the bar code and the direct relavance to commerce ?
Let me put it this way. IF the only way we could do commerce was if we had a surgical implant in our skins with a barcode in it (or a barcode tatoo on our skins) in our right arms/forehead , would you still be a sceptic ?
Originally posted by pcaspianYou don't think it is an usuall coincidence, the bar code and the direct relavance to commerce ?
Originally posted by Feivel
[b]Why does it shock me? What gives you the idea that I was shocked? now as to the mark of the beast, is it in any way "related" (as in opposite) the marl of god? If it is, the mark of god is clearly spelled out in the two passages I cited and in numerous other old testament references. A barcode is an interesting conce ...[text shortened]... or a barcode tatoo on our skins) in our right arms/forehead , would you still be a sceptic ?
I don't see the reference to buying or selling to be the least bit unusual.
IF the only way we could do commerce was if we had a surgical implant in our skins with a barcode in it (or a barcode tatoo on our skins) in our right arms/forehead , would you still be a sceptic ?
At that time I would be either forced to believe the bible (or at least this part of revelation) provided that the implant were in both areas (but there are other problems with that) OR I would see this as a total coincidence. I understand that the word coincidence is not a part of the christian vocabulary but I am not a christian and any similarity to what is in the bible does not mean "prophecy" is being fulfilled.
Now I understand your zeal to get people to believe the barcode idea like you do but just step back a minute and explain the mark of god that I posted and then explain the barcode in light of that. Also it would be nice if you can explain what the mark was that was put on Cain. Again show how those relate to the barcode.
Feivel
Originally posted by Feivel
[b]You don't think it is an usuall coincidence, the bar code and the direct relavance to commerce ?
I don't see the reference to buying or selling to be the least bit unusual.
[/b]
Ok, let me understand your view. Why do you not believe the correlation between the sign of the Beast and commerce to be unusual ? The two concepts are pretty much unrelated in isolation.
1. 666 on head or arm
2. No buying or trading.
Option 2 could have been .. anything, Yet it directly implies that without this mark, you cannot trade.
Firstly , we know we are moving to a cashless society. Thus imagine the only way to buy goods is using your credit/debit card and having a bank account with unique ID. Ignoring the prophecy for the moment, do you see that in every day life, you will eventually be entirely dependant on your bankcard ?
At that time I would be either forced to believe the bible (or at least this part of revelation) provided that the implant were in both areas (but there are other problems with that) [b]OR I would see this as a total coincidence. I understand that the word coincidence is not a part of the christian vocabulary but I am not a christian and any similarity to what is in the bible does not mean "prophecy" is being fulfilled. [/b]
I think you're confusing coincidence with relavance. We know there is no such thing as coincidence in God's eyes, however when comparing prophecy with actual events, indeed we need to assert beyond reasonable doubdt whether those events apply to the prophecy or indeed in reference to that prophecy is coincidental. The difference however is that your belief is only substantiated by cold hard facts, which can be replicated in a lab. If you choose that attitude to Christianity, you will clearly never believe.
PS: When this prophecy is fulfilled, it's pretty much all over. Gonna be slightly late to start believing then.
Now I understand your zeal to get people to believe the barcode idea like you do but just step back a minute and explain the mark of god that I posted and then explain the barcode in light of that.
Also it would be nice if you can explain what the mark was that was put on Cain. Again show how those relate to the barcode.
Feivel
Why would those relate to the prophecy ? We don't know what the mark of Cain was, but I see no direct relevance to Rev.
Put it this way. Imagine God will put a bright white cross on your forehead, but instead Satan decides to spoil his plan and instead puts his own mark at that particular spot. As the person willingly accepted Satan's mark, he/she cannot enter Heaven.
The Barcode does not have to directly relate to the text in the OT. It simply indicates that those specific areas happen to be areas that God will put a sign on, Satan knows this, as such puts his mark there first, defying God.
If you see a parrallel between the text in the OT and that in Rev, can you share with us ?
cheers
Originally posted by pcaspianOk, let me understand your view.
Originally posted by Feivel
[b][b]You don't think it is an usuall coincidence, the bar code and the direct relavance to commerce ?
I don't see the reference to buying or selling to be the least bit unusual.
[/b]
Ok, ...[text shortened]... ext in the OT and that in Rev, can you share with us ?
cheers
[/b]
Ok but I wouldn't exactly call it a view 🙂
Why do you not believe the correlation between the sign of the Beast and commerce to be unusual ? The two concepts are pretty much unrelated in isolation.
And there are hundreds of unrelated concepts in the entire bible. Those are not unusual either.
Yet it directly implies that without this mark, you cannot trade.
And may I ask you how did one survive during new testament (and old testament) times and all time since then? If you say by buying selling or trading I guess you might understand why it is not an unusual corelation. If you say farming, one still has to buy, sell or trade in order to buy feed for the animals and seed to plant.
Ignoring the prophecy for the moment, do you see that in every day life, you will eventually be entirely dependant on your bankcard ?
And that is supposed to be progress. Sorry to say that can't have anything to do with the prophecy because it is NOT a choice we can make. It is not optional. However, the prophecy clearly states that receiving the mark is an option.
The difference however is that your belief is only substantiated by cold hard facts, which can be replicated in a lab. If you choose that attitude to Christianity, you will clearly never believe.
Why did you say this? This amounts to no more than saying christianity is not factual unless you believe. this has nothing to do with the prophecy in Revelation.
Why would those relate to the prophecy ? We don't know what the mark of Cain was, but I see no direct relevance to Rev.
First let me say that I only brought up Cain because the mark was visible and that is ALL the bible tells us about it. However the bible clearly says we are not to accept the mark of the beast. It either tells us what the mark is directly or indirectly otherwise we could not avoid receiving it. The bible doesn't tell us anything about the mark of the beast outside Revelation but it does tell us what the mark of god is. Why would the mark of god (according to the bible) relate to the prophecy in Revelation? Ok let's take this slowly and see if you follow my thoughts here. The bible tells us what the mark of god is and it also tells us it is on the hand and forehead. According to the bible everybody will be aware of the mark (at least those that read the bible). then we have a choice, accept god's mark and be unable to buy and sell or accept the mark of the beast (The mark is not 666 that is the number of the mark). If the beast, who is part of the satanic triad of satan, the beast and the false prophet, wants people to accept his mark there is no possible way it can be different in nature from the mark of god. If it were, people would know it is not the mark of god, know of this prophecy and not accept it. Another possibility iif it were different in nature is that people could have the mark of god and still accept the beast's "barcode" thereby having two marks. I guess if that happens, god gets legal custody with the beast having weekend visitation 🙂
Feivel
Originally posted by shavixmirIf we numberize the English language, with A= 100, B = 101, etc, the following interesting coincidence occurs -
I believe it comes from a passage in the bible (in revelations?? Perhaps RBHILL can help us here a little).
Either that or an Iron Maiden song...
I've also heard that if you numberize languages (a=1, b=2, etc.), like latin or Greek or whatever (Jesus' orginal language?) that 666 spells the name of the beast.
I certainly hope it doesn't spell Shavixmir. That would be a bit of a bummer.
H = 107
I = 108
T = 119
L = 111
E = 104
R = 117
Adds up to 666. Coincidence ?
As for the number of a man, we are all being referred to as numbers. Widespread mobile phone ownership is literally turning us all into numbers. In future, maybe we won't be able to ''buy or sell'' or anything without this number as a prime indentifier of who we are.
Originally posted by PeterSwan2Gematria is not applicable to the english language. Besides why the arbitrary start at 100.
If we numberize the English language, with A= 100, B = 101, etc, the following interesting coincidence occurs -
H = 107
I = 108
T = 119
L = 111
E = 104
R = 117
Adds up to 666. Coincidence ?
As for the number of a man, we are all being referred to as numbers. Widespread mobile phone ownership is literally turning us all into numbers. In futu ...[text shortened]... to ''buy or sell'' or anything without this number as a prime indentifier of who we are.
Feivel
Originally posted by Feivel
And there are hundreds of unrelated concepts in the entire bible. Those are not unusual either.
Well, you seem to insinuate that the two should go hand in hand. That view I don't grasp.
And may I ask you how did one survive during new testament (and old testament) times and all time since then? If you say by buying selling or trading I guess you might understand why it is not an unusual corelation. If you say farming, one still has to buy, sell or trade in order to buy feed for the animals and seed to plant.
Not having the mark of the beast could result in hundreds of different things, this however is very specific. A mark , or number could mean being a slave, or say being a Jew in 1940, but what forinstance would prevent one Christian from buying or selling to another Christian ? Since the invention of money, we've lived in a cash based society, so exactly what would prevent a person from buying/selling goods in secret even if he didnt have this mark ?
This prophecy (of having the mark) does not state any conditions other than not being able to buy/trade. As such, we can see the mark must have some direct significance to buying/trading.
And that is supposed to be progress. Sorry to say that can't have anything to do with the prophecy because it is NOT a choice we can make. It is not optional. However, the prophecy clearly states that receiving the mark is an option.
Well ofcourse. However the only way for the prophecy to be fullfilled is if there is no other way of monetary transfer other than by electronic transfer. If that was not the case, what would prevent people from buying/trading with their sleaves rolled down ? Nothing. As such, the only means of trade will have to be integrated into the number on us.
Why did you say this? This amounts to no more than saying christianity is not factual unless you believe. this has nothing to do with the prophecy in Revelation.
Nope. Difference is your views and rational thinking requires concrete , replicatable proof. And by now we all know that even visions of God are mere dillusions found in mental patients.
The bible tells us what the mark of god is and it also tells us it is on the hand and forehead. According to the bible everybody will be aware of the mark (at least those that read the bible). then we have a choice, accept god's mark and be unable to buy and sell or accept the mark of the beast (The mark is not 666 that is the number of the mark). If the beast, who is part of the satanic triad of satan, the beast and the false prophet, wants people to accept his mark there is no possible way it can be different in nature from the mark of god. If it were, people would know it is not the mark of god, know of this prophecy and not accept it. Another possibility iif it were different in nature is that people could have the mark of god and still accept the beast's "barcode" thereby having two marks. I guess if that happens, god gets legal custody with the beast having weekend visitation 🙂
Why do you believe the Mark of God will be placed on people before the mark of the beast ? Oh but ofcourse people will rebel if the mark of the beast, a litteral 666 is placed on the heads of people tomorrow. But Satan definitely is NOT stupid.
Think of it this way. Everytime a paedophile abducts a child, everytime a murderer kills someone and escapes, everytime someone forges your bank card, or steals you wallet. Everytime your passport gets stolen it is more reason to find one secure way to protect yourself and your family. In LA it is already illegal not to have a microchip in your pet. It is for their own best ! If you love your dog, you will get him chipped because when he runs away, we can find him. Now add perhaps a miniature tracking device to this mark , which holds all your important details, can track your heart rate and tell you when to go to the doctors for a checkup. This is all propaganda and will become ever more common in future. And you know what ? The only people that will refuse this mark, will be those with 'something to hide' . Those Christian priests that molest children, just don't want to be caught. Those Christians that are always better that us, they are 'too good' to receive the Mark.
Make no mistake Feivel , the mark of the beast will not be something only devil worshippers receive. When you're faced with a decision between receiving an invis barcode/microchip as compared to starvation, which are you going to choose ?
cheers
Ever since John, the servant of God, wrote the Book of Revelation and mentioned the number 666, people have been trying to figure out the meaning of the mark of the beast. The number is mentioned in Revelation 13:16-18.
I believe the mark or number of the beast will be a financial identification system that the Antichrist will establish during the tribulation. He will use the mark as a tool for controlling all aspects of society.
The Antichrist will make it compulsory for everyone to have a tiny microchip implanted under the skin of the right hand or on the forehead. The microchip will hold various amounts of data pertaining to each person who receives the implant. Right now, the technology exists to fully implement this system. From here on out, the only changes will be in how much information those microchips will be able to hold.
Everyone who receives the mark will also have to swear allegiance to the Antichrist and acknowledge him as the supreme authority. This is why all who take the mark of the beast will be condemned to hell. All who choose not to receive the mark will be unable to buy anything because cash, checks, and credit cards will all be replaced by the beast system's instant funds.
As time has passed, we have lost the true meaning of the mark of the beast. Even though it is clearly defined as a mark that will be placed upon the right hand or forehead, a number of people throughout history have attached new and even weird meanings to the number 666. The number has become trivialized by its repeated association with its every random occurrence. Some folks have believed the beast’s number was to be a certain year. Because of this, the year 666 AD was at one time considered the date for the advent of the Antichrist. When that date came and went without incident, many began to anticipate the year 1666 with dread. Nostradamus pointed to the year 1999 as an inverted 666 year.
Because the beast’s number will have something to do with the Antichrist's name, scholars have been busy working equations to figure which world leaders have had names equaling 666 in some way. Depending on how you figure it, 666 can be made to add up to just about anyone's name.
A number of people have superstitions or phobias about this number. One person refused to ride in a car that had a license plate with 666 on it. Another person I know adds a stick of gum or something to his purchases if his check-out total at the store is triple six in any way. When President and Mrs. Reagan moved out to California, their house number was, you guessed it, 666. They had it changed to 668. Any time a bill numbered 666 is produced by a governing body like the UN or Congress, prophecy watchers give the document a good going-over to see if it has a connection with end-time events.
Radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh always says the best way to demonstrate absurdity is by being absurd. A friend recently emailed me a note listing other numbers of the beast. I expanded upon it and provide it here to illustrate how people can become too focused on the unholy number.
A Collection of Numbers of the Beast
666 Number of the beast
668 Neighbor of the beast
660 Approximate number of the beast
DCLXVI Roman numeral of the beast
666.0000 Number of the high-precision beast
0.666 Number of the millibeast
1/666 Common denominator of the beast
666[-/(-1)] Imaginary number of the beast
1010011010 Binary number of the beast
29A Hexidecimal number of the beast
-666 Negative number of the beast
00666 Zip code of the beast
$665.95 Retail price of the beast
$699.25 Price of the beast plus 5% state sales tax
$769.95 Price of the beast with all accessories and replacements
$656.66 Wal-Mart price of the beast
$646.66 Next week's Wal-Mart price of the beast
$333.00 After-Christmas sale price of the beast
$222.00 Going-out of business liquidation price of the beast
Phillips 666 Gasoline of the beast
Route 666 Way of the beast
665 Older brother of the beast
667 Younger brother of the beast
666 UP Soft drink of the beast
666lb cap Weight limit of the beast
666 F Oven temperature for cooking roast "beast"
666k Retirement plan of the beast
666 mg Recommended minimum daily requirement of the beast
6.66% 5-year CD rate at First Beast of Hell, $666 minimum deposit
20/666 Vision of the beast
1-800-666-6666 Toll-free number of the beast
999 Australian number of the beast
6"X 6"X 6" Lumber of the beast
66.6 GHZ Computer processor of the beast
666i BMW of the beast
666-66-6666 Social security number of the beast
6/6/66 Birth date of the beast
666.AC.com URL of the beast
IAM 666 License plate number of the beast
Formula 666 All-purpose cleaner of the beast
666 calories Diet of the beast
969 Dyslexic number of the beast
WD-666 Spray lubricant of the beast
66.6 MHz FM radio station of the beast
666 KHz AM radio station of the beast
Chanel No. 666 The beast's favorite perfume
666% What the beast gives in his game
I wouldn't totally rule out any other meaning to the appearance of the number 666. For example, a Halloween lottery pick-3 drawing once turned up 666 as the winning number. We may have to allow for the occasional sovereignty of God in His attempt to warn folks of the evils of this world--in this case, gambling and Halloween. If there's a wayward Christian at a convenience store buying a dirty magazine or a bottle of booze and the register rings up $6.66, I couldn't think of a better number for God to use to get that person's attention.
Now on the other hand, the next time you receive your water bill and upon opening it, you discover it comes to $6.66 or you realize you've used 666 cubic feet of water--don't go pulling your hair out. Unless it has a direct connection to the Antichrist or is some special message from God, 666 is just another number that randomly comes up.
From http://www.raptureready.com/rr-666.html
Originally posted by pcaspianWell, you seem to insinuate that the two should go hand in hand.
Originally posted by Feivel
[b]
And there are hundreds of unrelated concepts in the entire bible. Those are not unusual either.
Well, you seem to insinuate that the two should go hand in hand. That view I don't grasp.
And may I ask you how did one survive during new testament (and old testament) times and all time since then? If y ...[text shortened]... n invis barcode/microchip as compared to starvation, which are you going to choose ?
cheers
No, that's just an assumption your making.
I asked you a direct question about survival during biblical times that you deftly avoided answering. Untill you answer the question I asked, I am not going to even waste time acknowledging the rest of your post.
Feivel
Originally posted by player42there are some who thought it was Reagan, on the basis that each of his first, middle and last names has six letters...🙄
Computer barcodes use base-six math in three groups of code. There are those who believe that the barcode is the mark of the beast.
What do I think? I think it's George W. Bush.
Originally posted by Feivel
[b]Well, you seem to insinuate that the two should go hand in hand.
No, that's just an assumption your making.
I asked you a direct question about survival during biblical times that you deftly avoided answering. Untill you answer the question I asked, I am not going to even waste time acknowledging the rest of your post.
Feivel[/b]
Throwing your toys ?
Clearly people buy/sell to survive. (no mention of trading btw, 'buy / sell' . They can also hunt, scavenge, farm. Why does this method of survival imply a direct relationship with the number of the beast ?
Basically try this.
1. "There will be a number 324 on the backs and feet of all those that worship the Beast"
2.
For what reason OTHER that the fact that people breathe, sleep, talk, drink, eat, is it logically assumed that the very next line of the prophecy stipulates the correlation with commerce ?
So lets try
17 And that no man might X, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Fill in the missing words in place of X.
01. Sleep
02. Have intercourse
03. Drink wine
04. Leave his house
05. Buy/Sell
06. Enter the city
07. Have children
08. Worship the beast
09. Own a Ferrari
10 Plough his fields.
The prophecy is direct. There is no reason why buying/selling would obviously go hand in hand with having a mark on your body.
Now please reply to my original post.
cheers
Originally posted by pcaspianClearly people buy/sell to survive.
Originally posted by Feivel
[b][b]Well, you seem to insinuate that the two should go hand in hand.
No, that's just an assumption your making.
I asked you a direct question about survival during biblical times that you de ...[text shortened]...
Now please reply to my original post.
cheers
[/b]
Thank you for answering. Now why was the prophecie's buy/sell stipulation unusual? Buying and selling was common then, it is not like it mentioned something out of the ordinary.
Why does this method of survival imply a direct relationship with the number of the beast ?
There is no point in continuing this any further. Your mind is made up about the barcode and you even imply that the mark is the number. Read the prophecy again. It clearly states three possibilities, one is the mark, two is his name and three is the number. Why do you insist that it is only the number which is not the same as the mark? Read again The number is not the mark. Until you understand what is written, don't even bother replying just go write the pcapsian version of the new testament 🙂
Feivel
Originally posted by Feivel
[b]Clearly people buy/sell to survive.
Thank you for answering. Now why was the prophecie's buy/sell stipulation unusual? Buying and selling was common then, it is not like it mentioned something out of the ordinary.
Why does this method of survival imply a direct relationship with the number of the beast ?
There is no point in continuing this any further. Your mind is made up about the barcode and you even imply that the mark is the number. Read the prophecy again. It clearly states three possibilities, one is the mark, two is his name and three is the number. Why do you insist that it is only the number which is not the same as the mark? Read again The number is not the mark. Until you understand what is written, don't even bother replying just go write the pcapsian version of the new testament 🙂
Feivel[/b]
No , I will reply.
You've failed to address my previous post on condition that I blatantly refused to answer this extremely pertinent point. Yet after I address that, do you address my post ? No. On top of that your only rebuttal to my argument is that buying/selling is common, yet you completely fail to address WHY THE NUMBERS WOULD PREVENT YOU BUYING OR SELLING.
Never did expect any more from you though.
Originally posted by pcaspianAre you really that short sighted or are you just feigning ignorance? The number or name or mark will obviously serve as a visual cue that the holder (markee) can buy or sell, why else do you think I brought up Cain who's mark was visual. Either you ought to learn how to read and understand the bible you apparently believe or you should stop slinging ridiculous remarks around before you make yourself and the bible look stupid.
Originally posted by Feivel
[b][b]Clearly people buy/sell to survive.
Thank you for answering. Now why was the prophecie's buy/sell stipulation unusual? Buying and selling was common then, it is not like it mentioned something out of the ordinary.
Why does this method of survival imply a direct relationship with the number of the beast ...[text shortened]... THE NUMBERS WOULD PREVENT YOU BUYING OR SELLING.
Never did expect any more from you though.
Why didn't I answer your question?
1 - It was nothing more than a leading question that deserved no answer whatsoever
2 - reread the above paragraph.
Feivel