Cludi Deciding to Leave

Originally posted by Mad Rook
I seem to remember that Mr. Tebb mentioned his analysis was enough to make him suspicious. I don't remember him saying that he was enraged. Tone down the rhetoric, please.

I did not mean to exaggerate. If I were Mr. Tebb and I was suspicious of someone cheating I would be enraged. If appologize if I misspoke about someone else feelings.

Originally posted by Marinkatomb
I think the fact that Cludi hasn't outright claimed innocence in this case speaks volumes!

well I don't know about that. - if I was wrongly judged as an engine user, I probably wouldn't say much anything (unless I could somehow prove it, like pointing out an obvious mistake in the analysis). because nobody in their right mind would believe a word I'd say.

it's just the same thing as if I was abducted by aliens. - the whole story would be so ridiculous that nobody would believe it. excluding people who are susceptible to emotional reasoning, and I really wouldn't care much for that kind of a crowd on my side.

Originally posted by scamyum
Looking through the games of some of the players recently banned on this site I'm starting to question the decision of the moderators here. I have some (about a year) of experience working in engine use detection in CC and so I'm probably not as experienced as the paid professionals on this site but I have real doubts about both Cludi, ih8sens, and a few others. Anyways, as I mentioned, I'm now leaving the site, it's just not fun here.

Interesting post. Looking through the games of recently banned players you would not have found the name Cludi so your post appears to be questioning the judgment of the mods regarding ih8sens. If you've a years experience of working in engine use detection as you claim then you'll appreciate that a detailed study of a number of games is required to reach a conclusion. More than this the moderators will be looking at games that have been referred to them with specific cheating allegations. If we assume that ih8sens wasn't a blatant cheat (and therefore easy to detect) and that the mods put a lot of work in prior to recommending a ban - on what evidence do you arrive at your conclusions. Surely you would have to make a detailed study of a large number of his games and this would take you many hours. How do you know that you didn't just look at a number of his games where he played without assistance.

Do please let us know the cc site where you have worked in engine use detection as it might be interesting to make comparisons. It is the cheats - like ih8sens - who make the site less fun so I think it's worth a bit of effort to combat them.

Originally posted by Doctor Rat
Playchess.com has an engine room and they host the PAL/CSS Freestyle tournaments, so if you want to play human v. human, you can play in the main lobby, and if you want to play computer v. computer, or centaur v. centaur (or whatever combo), you can play in the engine room. Sadly, even though an engine room is available, people still get caught using engines in the main lobby.

yes thats what i was refering to (maybe i worded it wrong).

Originally posted by no1marauder
Then it should had been deleted if the Site Admin hadn't given permission for it to be posted publicly.

I didn't see it, but Gatecrasher has stated that it did not say Cludi had been found not guilty but merely that no verdict had been reached. If that is so, his leaving before the process is concluded is strong circumstantial evidence of guilt.

I see you're still in possession of your super-mega-load of crap. Half-baked opinions mixed up with slanderous accusations, with a nice dollop of self-righteousness on top. You're your good-old you.

Originally posted by David Tebb
Yes, that figure is pretty damning.

Also bear in mind that these are cludi's own statistics, from an analysis of his games that he ran. My analysis produced much higher statistics.

If I'm biased and my statistics have to be treated with scepticism, then you can say the same about cludi's statistics.

I don't like you. I don't like weasels who air their dirty laundry in public when they don't get their way. You told the mods, the mods examined him, they did not find him guilty of cheating. Then you come in to the forums with your accusations because you didn't get the result you wanted.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
I don't like you. I don't like weasels who air their dirty laundry in public when they don't get their way. You told the mods, the mods examined him, they did not find him guilty of cheating. Then you come in to the forums with your accusations because you didn't get the result you wanted.

not true. the dirty laundry was aired only after game mods were disbanded (before the investigation had concluded), and it looked like the admins wouldn't react in any way.

Originally posted by Richardt Hansen
Today is a sad sad day.

Let me first state that I can surely understand that David Tebb is frustrated - because surely alot of the "players" in top 50 are using "help".

Sadly I think he is chasing a ghost. If David (and English Tal) were 100% sure that Cludi was a cheater then there was no reason what so ever to make (hidden) accusations in th found innocent I hope they will have a hard time looking in the mirror every morning !!!

I'm with you. It's absolute nonsense that when you don't get satisfaction from the game mods - let me restate that - when you don't get the result you want from the game mods - that you make accusations in a public forum about a player. I don't sit in Claus' apartment, I don't know if he runs engines or not. But I do regard this whispering campaign by David Tebb and English Tal as a clear undermining of the mods, the site, and the quality of the play. Of course people want to play against people and not programs. However, the work of the mods was suspended, and no conclusion was reached. Why not accuse the mods of trying to protect him over you then? Hell why not accuse Russ of collusion and conspiracy? It's clearly very suspicious that the game mods' work was suspended before a conclusion could be reached regarding the purported 2007 champion.

Those two should have respected the decision of the game mods. When they did not, they showed the mods, their opponents, and the game great disrespect. Those two played a very high-stakes poker game, attacking a respected player's honor and integrity when the mods were unable to reach a conclusion. If destroying a man's reputation isn't enough to get you cashiered off the site in a most unceremonious, unglorious, and impolite way, it should be.

You two blackguards - never speak again.

Originally posted by wormwood
not true. the dirty laundry was aired only after game mods were disbanded (before the investigation had concluded), and it looked like the admins wouldn't react in any way.

I think the non-reaction by the site administrators may be the most important factor here. I don't think this would have escalated the way it did with a little more communication from the site administrators, even if they wouldn't have been able to offer a solution right away.

Originally posted by sasquatch672

Those two should have respected the decision of the game mods.

Once again, the mods never reached a decision. Haven't you read Gatecrasher's posts?

Originally posted by wormwood
not true. the dirty laundry was aired only after game mods were disbanded (before the investigation had concluded), and it looked like the admins wouldn't react in any way.

Nevertheless, bringing it into the forums was entirely inappropriate. In the past we had trial-by-forum for cheating and as a site we decided we didn't like it. Cheating accusations were banned and for good reason.

As a site we now deal with cheaters through the rather unsettling secret trials with secret evidence and no opportunity for the accused to present a defense. BUT, in return for this rather disturbing form of "justice" we are supposed to avoid the spectacle of trial-by-forum.

Now though, we've got the worst of both possible worlds. Both secret trials with secret evidence and no opportunity to present a defense AND a lynching in the forums based upon the secret evidence that "can't be revealed" and which most of us wouldn't understand even if it was revealed. This couldn't possibly be more wrong.

I have a lot of respect for Mr. Tebb's chess abilities, but I believe that moving this into the forums was a blunder on his part.

Originally posted by Nordlys
Once again, [b]the mods never reached a decision. Haven't you read Gatecrasher's posts?[/b]

Haven't you read mine?

Originally posted by leisurelysloth
I have a lot of respect for Mr. Tebb's chess abilities, but I believe that moving this into the forums was a blunder on his part.

Hear hear.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
Haven't you read mine?

Yes, I have. It didn't make much sense.

Originally posted by leisurelysloth
I have a lot of respect for Mr. Tebb's chess abilities, but I believe that moving this into the forums was a blunder on his part.

I rather think it was the last resort after having tried all other conceivable ways to solve this without getting anywhere.