Only Chess
06 Mar 08
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by Fat LadyOK, rather than a murderer analogy, how about a child molester instead?
OK, rather than a murderer analogy, how about a child molester instead? Murderers, for the most part, only kill once, whereas kiddy fiddlers will keep going until they're stopped.
What if you had evidence that a teacher or someone else in authority was molesting the children in their charge. Perhaps you were only 90% certain of your facts (I'm not sure h ...[text shortened]... let that pass!). Would you allow them to carry on with their job until you were 99% certain?
Ok, rather than a child molester, how about any inflammatory prejudicial example based upon the logical fallacy of Appeal to Emotion.
Murderers, for the most part, only kill once, whereas kiddy fiddlers will keep going until they're stopped.
Yeah, murder is soooo much better.
What if you had evidence that a teacher or someone else in authority was molesting the children in their charge. Perhaps you were only 90% certain of your facts (I'm not sure how you'd measure that, but let that pass!).
I'm not sure how you'd measure that, but let that pass.
INSTANT FAIL!!
Would you allow them to carry on with their job until you were 99% certain?
Hey, why have the bar as high as 90% then? Why not 75%? Or 50%? Or why not just a hint of hearsay rumor? I mean, where there's smoke, there's fire, and they're probably guilty of something, right? Maybe you just don't like the way they look? Ban 'em!
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by HindsteinThat's absurd. Someone is either cheating or they are not. Why should we assume they are not if a top player here who was a former member of the Game Mod team says he has analysis that shows he is cheating? Esp. when any opportunity for the Game Mods to reach a final decision is frustrated by the actions of the Site Admins? To use your analogy, we don't disband the criminal courts because a judge gets accused of murder, but that's what happened here.
I'm not sure I fully agree with you here.
In my opinion, unless a guilty verdict has been reached, then surely the only possible inference is that the accused is currently innocent. Last time I checked, policemen do not come out and hold press conferences to say that (insert random name here) is not a murderer. No, only following a guilty verdict does s ...[text shortened]... ue process" of sorting out the mod team replacements rather then having a trial by angry mob.
Gatecrasher specifically said that the Game Mod team wasn't allowed enough time to decide whether this individual was guilty or not. Technically that means "not yet guilty" I suppose. But it also means that no guilty verdict is possible because the system that decided guilt has been destroyed.
If Russ had bothered to tell us a new Game Mod team was being reconstituted, perhaps people would have had some patience (though surely a month and a half is too long). But he decided to say nothing and leave the impression that RHP was now an engine friendly zone. Under all those circumstances, Dave Tebb did this site a favor by bringing the whole issue to light. I say kudos to him and hope he is part of any Game Mod team.
07 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Richardt HansenYou must be deranged to believe such a theory about Dave Tebb. I won't even dignify such garbage with a detailed refutation.
Originally posted by no1marauder
That's absurd. Someone is either cheating or they are not. Why should we assume they are not if a top player here who was a former member of the Game Mod team says he has analysis that shows he is cheating?
____________________________________________________________________________________________________ me a mod to become immune to investigation. Man that conspiracy theory is impressive !!![/b]
EDIT: Oh, the Vikings - now I get it. A lot of IM31's clanmates screamed and yelled what a raw deal he was getting, too.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by David Tebbit was some random rambling on how you supposedly were enraged about not winning the championships, and came up with a most cunning plan to get rid of cludi. you didn't miss anything.
What was said?
I didn't see the removed post, but I gather it was an accusation about me?
07 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by KeplerPerhaps there are only two possibilities for a satisfactory resolution. A sorry letter from the accused confessing all and apologizing to all who have been hurt or an authoritative refutation of the allegations to the satisfaction of the accuser who then posts a sorry letter stating how they had the best intentions of the site at heart etc. etc.
If he is found innocent I think that we shall then see a great deal of whining about the whole game mod/cheat detection system being obviously flawed. I also suspect there will be no real resolution of this case.
Brentford winning the FA cup, discovery of life on mars, Osama and Bush agreeing to peace and resolving their differences over a cup of tea and a round of golf all seem about as likely as the any of the above. I suspect we may have to learn to live with never knowing for sure.
I would like a resolution as I've always held both parties in high regard.
I do think that anyone who has suspicions of cheating should act on them and I can understand the frustration of someone who makes a serious allegation only to see it being apparently swept under the carpet.
Surely we can conclude that the site admins have been slow to respond on this issue and better and more prompt communication with all concerned would have been preferable.
Perhaps they were overloaded with work and found themselves in something of a zugswang unable to decide on the best way forward. Imagining myself in their shoes for a moment I think I would have been banging my head on the table for a few days before taking any action.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by ArrakisGreat Post.
This reminds me of a few years ago when I worked for ICC as a Computer Buster. One day I logged in and was told that a famous grandmaster was caught by "our system" as a cheater. Nobody knew what to do because ICC had a contract with this GM and he was charging members $5 bucks a game to play him in a simul.
I know that ICC gave him a free membership and ...[text shortened]... think I'm wrong, but only the future will tell us.
Arrakis
I love the idea that ICC has a system that checks everyone.
07 Mar 08
@David Tebb:
If you are interested I would be happy to sent you an private message with my post - it's actually no accusation towards you - just my thoughts of the background for your accusations against Cludi. I have no idea why my post was removed ......
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no1maurauder your amazing you think that I "must be deranged to believe such a theory about Dave Tebb. I won't even dignify such garbage with a detailed refutation."
Why should I belive anything else. There are no evidence what so ever that Cludi has cheated - if there was he would have been banned.
On the other hand we have the runner up making accusations about the winner - a rnuner up that has been so possessed with winnning the Championship that he has been setting his alarm clock in the middle of the night to move to get a chance of a time-out win - and when that does'nt work he has tried to analyze his opponemts move time to get a new shot at a time-out win.
Excuse me for not beliving when a individual like that make accusations towards the winnner. Maybe you should try asking yourself why you blindly trust someone making accusations without the proper documentation .....
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by Richardt HansenFor goodness sake get your facts straight - David Tebb was not the runner up in the 2007 Championship, English Tal was. David Tebb did not set his alarm for some ungodly hour in order to claim a timeout win, that was English Tal as well.
@David Tebb:
If you are interested I would be happy to sent you an private message with my post - it's actually no accusation towards you - just my thoughts of the background for your accusations against Cludi. I have no idea why my post was removed ......
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no1maurauder your amazing you think that I "must be deranged to believe ...[text shortened]... elf why you blindly trust someone making accusations without the proper documentation .....
If your original post wasn't an accusation towards David Tebb then I've never seen one before.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by Richardt HansenMaybe you should read your hero's own blog; he admits to engine matchups that are so high that they would be considered strong evidence against anyone.
@David Tebb:
If you are interested I would be happy to sent you an private message with my post - it's actually no accusation towards you - just my thoughts of the background for your accusations against Cludi. I have no idea why my post was removed ......
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no1maurauder your amazing you think that I "must be deranged to believe ...[text shortened]... elf why you blindly trust someone making accusations without the proper documentation .....
"No evidence"??????
Further, you obviously didn't bother to read 90% of this thread; the Game Mods deliberations on this issue were interrupted because of the Site Admins' foolish decision to scrap the entire Game Mod team. Thus, the investigation was never completed.
The idea that Dave Tebb, a 2200+ OTB player would covet the Championship of an INTERNET CHESS SITE sooooooooooooooo badly that he would resort to unfounded cheating accusations is nuts. And you're nuts if you actually believe such swill.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by no1marauderwhat a trophy that would be, for the guy who has beaten kasparov. 😵
... The idea that Dave Tebb, a 2200+ OTB player would covet the Championship of an INTERNET CHESS SITE sooooooooooooooo badly that he would resort to unfounded cheating accusations is nuts.
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07 Mar 08
Originally posted by Richardt HansenThanks for the offer, but you don't need to send me your deleted post, as a few people who saw it have told me its contents.
@David Tebb:
If you are interested I would be happy to sent you an private message with my post - it's actually no accusation towards you - just my thoughts of the background for your accusations against Cludi. I have no idea why my post was removed ......
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no1maurauder your amazing you think that I "must be deranged to believe ...[text shortened]... elf why you blindly trust someone making accusations without the proper documentation .....
I actually came equal fourth in the 2007 Championship. If I had a sinister plot to win the tournament by arranging the downfall of the winner, I would also have to do something about the 3 other players who finished above me!
Why does anyone report someone to the Game Mods, saying they suspect them of using an engine? Is everyone who does that motivated by jealousy? Maybe I just did what I thought was the right thing and asked the authorities to check a player who I had become suspicious of? If there was no evidence, as you claim, why was a full investigation instigated which went on for months (and still doesn't seem to have been resolved)?
Russ, Chris and the other Game Mods could have just dismissed my allegations and let everyone carry on as before. Instead, after looking very carefully at the evidence the site owners decided to close down the Game Mods! Why would they do that, if there was no real evidence?