Only Chess
06 Mar 08
06 Mar 08
Originally posted by David TebbThe ol Magic 8 ball, eh 😛 joke
It's all a bit more complicated than that. But I can't really go into it, as the Game Mods have developed their own sophisticated methods for analysing and interpreting the statistics. I don't think I could explain it properly even if I wanted to.
06 Mar 08
Originally posted by David TebbThis sounds like a good idea.
I would be very interested to know who those people are! He said that he reported them to the site owners.
Perhaps one of the first tasks of the new game mods will be to investigate those players. Actually I would hope that they check out all the finalists of the 2007 Championship. I also suggest that they investigate everyone above a certain rating threshold. Starting from the top and working downwards.
The RHP community needs to feel that an active effort is being made to catch and remove engine users.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by no1marauderAre you really going to compare a trial to a chess site? 😕
Semantics don't terribly matter in this case. But if you want to change it to "If a defendant stated his intention to leave a trial before the verdict was delivered, it would be circumstantial evidence of guilt" go ahead.
- Joined
- 16 Feb 07
- Moves
- 27653
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by David TebbThis is the best suggestion I've heard in a while. Check everyone over 1900 if its practical. Start from the top and skip the relatively inactive ones (like Peter9 and Billdny for starters).
Perhaps one of the first tasks of the new game mods will be to investigate those players. Actually I would hope that they check out all the finalists of the 2007 Championship. I also suggest that they investigate everyone above a certain rating threshold. Starting from the top and working downwards.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by Fat LadyI'm not sure I fully agree with you here.
All indications were that it was being swept under the carpet. The game mods had been disbanded before a decision about Cludi had been reached and he was being allowed to continue to play in leagues etc. There was nothing whatsoever to indicate that anything was being done about Cludi, either to prove his innocence or guilt.
A message from Russ / Chris s ...[text shortened]... blicly on the forums and in PMs because there was no process in place to make them privately.
In my opinion, unless a guilty verdict has been reached, then surely the only possible inference is that the accused is currently innocent. Last time I checked, policemen do not come out and hold press conferences to say that (insert random name here) is not a murderer. No, only following a guilty verdict does someone get labeled as one. Should it not be the same here?
Silence by the admin team in the past only showed that there is not enough evidence to ban and so therefore anyone that people suspect should be considered innocent... until proven otherwise. This should have been the case here too. No ban - not yet guilty.
I think that Russ and Chris acted absolutely fairly here - the game mod team had to be re-thought because of the allegations of one of their own. Everyone here should have waited for the "due process" of sorting out the mod team replacements rather then having a trial by angry mob.
Originally posted by Richardt HansenThis reminds me of a few years ago when I worked for ICC as a Computer Buster. One day I logged in and was told that a famous grandmaster was caught by "our system" as a cheater. Nobody knew what to do because ICC had a contract with this GM and he was charging members $5 bucks a game to play him in a simul.
Today is a sad sad day.
Let me first state that I can surely understand that David Tebb is frustrated - because surely alot of the "players" in top 50 are using "help".
Sadly I think he is chasing a ghost. If David (and English Tal) were 100% sure that Cludi was a cheater then there was no reason what so ever to make (hidden) accusations in th found innocent I hope they will have a hard time looking in the mirror every morning !!!
I know that ICC gave him a free membership and because they use "checkels" instead of dollars I suspect that ICC was taking a percentage of the guy's earnings from his simuls.
Anyway, there were a lot of different ideas on how to handle the problem... maybe the system was wrong? Maybe the GM only cheated once? and it went on and on because nobody wanted to face up to the cold hard facts: That this great player, this Grandmaster, was actually using a computer to play his games!
So how did it all end?
Very messy. At first they tried to ignore everything and when a class B player was drawing the GM in one of his simuls my boss told me to "C" that guy! He's obviously cheating and making us look bad." Keep in mind that all the busters had an open channel to talk thru while viewing the game.
So I refused to "C" the guy and said that I wouldn't give anyone a "C" w/o investigating the matter. A "C" is what ICC uses as a deterent to people using a computer to play their games. It stands for "Computer assisted player". Note that players caught using a computer are not banished into darkness and lost forever, hell no. ICC makes money off of them They have tournaments where only "C" players can play in! But they can't play in tournaments with human players.
RHP could adopt the same idea if Russ would take his blinders off and realize that you cannot catch all the cheaters. And why lose the revenue? By creating a special group of "computer assisted" players they could have their own tournaments. Hell, they could even have their own clans! The important thing is that subscribing members would be protected... computer users would have their own group. RHP would not lose money and everyone would be happy! 🙂
Ok, to make a long story short... I spent 3 days on the class B player who drew the GM and told my group that I would not "C" him because the data showed that he was not a cheater. They "C"ed him anyways to try to protect their GM.
I quit the group because I refused to be a part of it and a week later the GM admitted he had cheated and was sorry. So they allowed him to make an apology and that was the end of it. No "C" for the GM.
Politics. Sometimes when you stand up for what you beleive in you can make a change... sometimes you can't. All I can say is that I feel really good for not letting a company corrupt my values.
So while I'm on this rant, let me point something out to all the members here... There is no glory, no money and no reward for anyone wanting to serve on the mod team. What you will get though, is a lot of work, a lot of criticizm and instructions from people above you who don't have the slightest bit of knowledge of the work you do.
I'd like to think I'm wrong, but only the future will tell us.
Arrakis
07 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by Arrakisyes they also have something similar on playchess.com
RHP could adopt the same idea if Russ would take his blinders off and realize that you cannot catch all the cheaters. And why lose the revenue? By creating a special group of "computer assisted" players they could have their own tournaments. Hell, they could even have their own clans! The important thing is that subscribing members would be protected... com have their own group. RHP would not lose money and everyone would be happy!
it would help indeed but again that is an ideal which cant be 100 achieved.
however yes i agree this method would be better then the current situation or most other alternative methods.
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by HindsteinOK, rather than a murderer analogy, how about a child molester instead? Murderers, for the most part, only kill once, whereas kiddy fiddlers will keep going until they're stopped.
I'm not sure I fully agree with you here.
In my opinion, unless a guilty verdict has been reached, then surely the only possible inference is that the accused is currently innocent. Last time I checked, policemen do not come out and hold press conferences to say that (insert random name here) is not a murderer. No, only following a guilty verdict does s ...[text shortened]... ue process" of sorting out the mod team replacements rather then having a trial by angry mob.
What if you had evidence that a teacher or someone else in authority was molesting the children in their charge. Perhaps you were only 90% certain of your facts (I'm not sure how you'd measure that, but let that pass!). Would you allow them to carry on with their job until you were 99% certain?
07 Mar 08
Originally posted by SSJ4GogetaSSJ4Playchess.com has an engine room and they host the PAL/CSS Freestyle tournaments, so if you want to play human v. human, you can play in the main lobby, and if you want to play computer v. computer, or centaur v. centaur (or whatever combo), you can play in the engine room. Sadly, even though an engine room is available, people still get caught using engines in the main lobby.
yes they also have something similar on playchess.com
it would help indeed but again that is an ideal which cant be 100 achieved.
however yes i agree this method would be better then the current situation or most other alternative methods.
I'm guessing that Russ is trying to avoid the temptation of a slippery slope on the site; if there is an Engine Room option at RHP (like the Blitz area), maybe it would be just too easy for some players who have an engine window open on their computer to keep it open when they switch to their regular correspondence games. Maybe if Russ created a separate site to host Correspondence Chess Freestyle (ccfreestyle.com?) games out from under the umbrella of RHP, that might be a solution.