Cludi Deciding to Leave

Originally posted by no1marauder
I notice you left out the rest of my post; did you bother to read it?

Yes I did. And just because 12 jurors might or might not convict in that case doesn't necessarily mean your opinion is the right one.

And Witty sorry, I thought it was you he was quoting. Going back and reading it was Mad Rook he was quoting.

Originally posted by Gatecrasher
The exact words from the admin were

"Noone has found that Cludi violated section 3b. The game moderation process is currently undergoing a review, but it is not the case that Cludi has been found guilty."

As I have said repeatedly, game moderation was suspended before a conclusion could be reached.

Thank you. I stand corrected.

Let me rephrase myself. I don't know, and I probably never will know for absolute certainty, whether cludi cheated. Personally, I take him at his word, but that is irrelevant to my point. My point is that these cheating allegations should not exist in the forums. But, since they have been circulated nonstop, I can understand why cludi is leaving with what shreds of dignity, if any, he has remaining.

Originally posted by Leaadas
Yes I did. And just because 12 jurors might or might not convict in that case doesn't necessarily mean your opinion is the right one.

And Witty sorry, I thought it was you he was quoting. Going back and reading it was Mad Rook he was quoting.

If you'd care to refute why if a defendant left an ongoing trial it would be a rational and logical conclusion that he believed he was going to be found guilty, go ahead. Just because there can be two possible opinions regarding a matter doesn't mean they are equally logical as you implied.

Originally posted by Leaadas
And Witty sorry, I thought it was you he was quoting.

Don't worry about it; it's a heated discussion.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

Then the title and first sentence of his blog piece are wrong.

If he is still playing, it would a good idea for the new Game Mod team when it is formed to immediately review the evidence. If he's a cheat he should be banned, period, not given the option to finish his games. If he is not a cheat, then the whole problem is solved, ain't it?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Then the title and first sentence of his blog piece are wrong.

You do understand the difference between "Leaving RHP" and "Left RHP" don't you? And "I’ve decided to leave RHP" doesn't mean "I've already left RHP".

Just a friendly lesson on semantics.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Then the title and first sentence of his blog piece are wrong.

If he is still playing, it would a good idea for the new Game Mod team when it is formed to immediately review the evidence. If he's a cheat he should be banned, period, not given the option to finish his games. If he is not a cheat, then the whole problem is solved, ain't it?

Exactly but thats the way it was supposed to be in the first place not after the whole community got dragged into it... andd thanks to whom is that?

Besides I am still waiting for the answer to my question.

Challenge of what he said or at least which part not to believe and why...

Originally posted by no1marauder
(Shrug) You can spin it any way you want. If a defendant left a trial in progress, the jury would almost certainly conclude that that was strong evidence of guilt. And that would be a rational and logical conclusion.

It's not my intent to "spin" anything. I don't know any of these people, and I have no emotional ties to this controversy. It doesn't matter to me in the least how this plays out.

I was simply making a comment on basic human emotions. Some, but certainly not all, people simply have a strong emotional avoidance response for distasteful events, and it's not uncommon for this type of person to simply flee the controversy, even if there's no truth to the accusations. This personality type doesn't like being the central figure in public controversies. Whether that's the case here, I have no idea. I have no idea whether he's an innocent person with this type of personality, or whether he's just pretending to have this personality. I'm just stating that in my mind, the evidence isn't strong simply because of the "flee factor".

You used the analogy of someone not showing up to defend himself in a legal trial. I don't see that analogy as being a particularly good one in this case. The consequences of not showing up to defend yourself in a trial can be very serious - conviction as a felon, prison time, etc. So in this case, an innocent person would be much more inclined to defend himself in a legal trial because of the potentially severe consequences of being declared guilty due to not being there to defend himself. In a stuation such as RHP, the consequences of fleeing a controversy are much less severe than a legal trial, so the probability of an innocent person fleeing an RHP controversy is much higher than the probability of an innocent person fleeing a legal trial defense.

Originally posted by adam warlock
You do understand the difference between "Leaving RHP" and "Left RHP" don't you? And "I’ve decided to leave RHP" doesn't mean "I've already left RHP".

Just a friendly lesson on semantics.

Semantics don't terribly matter in this case. But if you want to change it to "If a defendant stated his intention to leave a trial before the verdict was delivered, it would be circumstantial evidence of guilt" go ahead.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

the blog post consists mostly of emotional considerations, which really have no bearing on the verdict. the only concrete evidence on it look really really bad. the excuses he gives (tactical style, tebb's possible personal motivation, pressure on admins) are pretty much irrelevant. and being a nice guy is just as irrelevant.

all of what has happened is quite reasonable considering the results. tebb's reaction, disbanment of game mods when one of them is compromised, forum reaction when nothing happens etc. -and I do understand how he must feel about it all. but it doesn't change facts, and he doesn't get immunity just because he's a nice guy and popular.

Originally posted by Mad Rook
It's not my intent to "spin" anything. I don't know any of these people, and I have no emotional ties to this controversy. It doesn't matter to me in the least how this plays out.

I was simply making a comment on basic human emotions. Some, but certainly not all, people simply have a strong emotional avoidance response for distasteful events, and it's no ...[text shortened]... higher than the probability of an innocent person fleeing a legal trial defense.

I don't buy it. If he was so unconcerned about the controversy and it's possible ramifications, he wouldn't feel the need to post a long defense. The fact of his doing so and then fleeing seems to be an attempt to avoid a decision being made by the appropriate authorities here while still trying to manipulate public opinion. In short, he is trying to (and succeeding in) garnering sympathy. But sympathy is not something an innocent person is terribly interested in.

Originally posted by wormwood
the blog post consists mostly of emotional considerations, which really have no bearing on the verdict. the only concrete evidence on it look really really bad. the excuses he gives (tactical style, tebb's possible personal motivation, pressure on admins) are pretty much irrelevant. and being a nice guy is just as irrelevant.

Exactly. Less than 0.2% chance of NOT being a cheater sounds pretty damning to me.

Originally posted by dooser2004
Exactly but thats the way it was supposed to be in the first place not after the whole community got dragged into it... andd thanks to whom is that?

Besides I am still waiting for the answer to my question.

Challenge of what he said or at least which part not to believe and why...

You do realize that according to his own figures, there's a 81% chance he's a cheat?

Originally posted by wormwood
...the only concrete evidence on it look really really bad...

I think he summed it up well himself.

"It’s also obvious, that [his] numbers are somewhat borderline. They’re obviously not low enough for a ban, but they definitely look suspicious.