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IronMan31 V Rest of RHP

IronMan31 V Rest of RHP

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tjs

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EDIT: What does white do about that?
agreed

So if we first play 21... rd8

we are now threatening to play 22... C5!

??

i

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Game 868388
Okay, let me paste this here so I don't have to browse 2 pages back each time.
EDIT: Now to reply
21...Rd8 is met by 22.Qc3 and you can forget about c5 anytime soon.
22...Nxh5?! 23.Rxf7 leads to disaster. So the best choice is
22...Ra6!?
Now what is left is to evaluate this position.

tjs

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the kinght at e5 can actually be a bit of a tactical weakness if the d4 pawn is undermined

tjs

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Originally posted by ilywrin
EDIT: Now to reply
21...Rd8 is met by 22.Qc3 and you can forget about c5 anytime soon.
[/b]

yes - then 22... Qc7 with
23... c5 to follow?

Edit: better than ra6 right? or am i missing something obvious?
been working since 5.30 am ;-0

i

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Originally posted by the jitty slitter
yes - then 22... Qc7 with
23... c5 to follow?

Edit: better than ra6 right? or am i missing something obvious?
been working since 5.30 am ;-0
I still believe 22...Ra6!? is the best move ; 22...Qc7 leads to immense complications after 23.Nxf7!? Qxf4 24.Nxd8!? (maybe 24.Qxa5 is stronger?), etc.
EDIT:
To get better view

EDIT2: It looks like 23.Nxf7 is countered by the cold blooded 23...Rd7; this now starts to look better than 22...Ra6

s

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Originally posted by ilywrin
I still believe 22...Ra6!? is the best move ; 22...Qc7 leads to immense complications after 23.Nxf7!? Qxf4 24.Nxd8!? (maybe 24.Qxa5 is stronger?), etc.
EDIT:
To get better view
[fen]2kr4/ppq2pp1/2p1pn1p/r3N2P/2PP1R2/2Q5/PP3PP1/1K1R4[/fen]
EDIT2: It looks like 23.Nxf7 is countered by the cold blooded 23...Rd7; this now starts to look better than 22...Ra6
In this situation, doesn't 22. ...Rxe5 win the knight? Or am I looking wrong?

i

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Originally posted by schakuhr
In this situation, doesn't 22. ...Rxe5 win the knight? Or am I looking wrong?
You are absolutely right 😉 I missed it 🙁 So 22.Qc3 is impossible after 21...Rd8

i

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Game 868388
Okay, let's summarize (so that others don't have to read to everything before).
[b]After 21...c5

1)22.dxc5? Qxc5 is attacking the Knight at e5. If 23.Nd3 Qxh5 seems good for Black. So here Black seems OK;
2)22.d5 exd5 23.Qc3! Ra6 24.cxd5 Rd8 /but not 24...Nxh5? 25.Qh3+/ 25.Rc4 Rxd5 26.Rxd5 Nxd5 27.Rxc5+ Nc7 and Black seem ok.
3)22.Qc3! Qc7!?23.d5 exd5 24.cxd Rd8 and further as in 2)




s

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That's it, I'm going for Rd8. this c5 is getting too complicated for me. It gives me a headache.

tjs

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agree. then we play the headache c5!

EDIT: and of course white is left with how to defend 22... rxe5!

i

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Anyone else willing to share their thoughts?

buffalobill
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On yer tail ...

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Originally posted by ilywrin
[b][fen]2k2r2/pp2qpp1/2p1pn1p/r3N2P/2PP1R2/5Q2/PP3PP1/1K1R4[/fen]
Game 868388
Okay, let's summarize (so that others don't have to read to everything before).
[b]After 21...c5

1)22.dxc5? Qxc5 is attacking the Knight at e5. If 23.Nd3 Qxh5 seems good for Black. So here Black seems OK;
2)22.d5 exd5 23.Qc3! Ra6 24.cxd5 Rd8 /but not 24...N ...[text shortened]... and Black seem ok.
3)22.Qc3! Qc7!?23.d5 exd5 24.cxd Rd8 and further as in 2)




[/b]
I've been away, so need to look at all positions, but 21. ... c5 looks attractive. For the reason that for the first time in this game, black has the tempi. This has now become a critical juncture of the game. A defensive move like Rd8 doesn't look like much because of Black's weak g7 pawn. My gut feel is to put the pressure on white and not give him a chance to exploit our weaknesses. Now, how do we make this small advantage work for us?

A

Detroit, Michigan

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I agree w/ schakur. R-d5 looks better than c5.

Reasons for R-d8

1) R-d8 contests vital central file
2) If weak pawn @g7 isn't under attack, then it's not a weakness, yet
3) F file is closed and sufficiently protected
4) If White queen and Knight force attack on c6 we win exchange and interpose Q or move K-c8


Reasons against c5

1) Ironman will most likely push d5, threatening to chase queen unless we open up e file w/ exd5 giving him recapture cxd5, potential passed pawn
2) If he does capture dxc5 we allow him to open d file with him being there ahead of us.
3) We are making a weakening pawn move that threatens to weaken castled position
4) We restict power of our own castle on a5, boxing him in a bit

tjs

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I agree with this to a point, but c5 seems stronger with rd8 already played and rd8 prevents Qc3 (rxe5 next move), giving white extra problems

An immediate c5 seems to lead to a roughly level position according to the triple thread analysis above from I.

Which we play i guess depends on what white plays in response to rd8?

how is that defended or made irrelevant?

buffalobill
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Originally posted by ilywrin
[b][fen]2k2r2/pp2qpp1/2p1pn1p/r3N2P/2PP1R2/5Q2/PP3PP1/1K1R4[/fen]
Game 868388
Okay, let's summarize (so that others don't have to read to everything before).
[b]After 21...c5

3)22.Qc3! Qc7!?23.d5 exd5 24.cxd Rd8 and further as in 2)




[/b]
Better I think is: 23. ... Ra6 which brings the rook more into play. Followed by 24. dxe6 Rxe6 and the knight has to move.
What about White ignoring the pawn exchange and playing 24. Rf3 (?)

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