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IronMan31 V Rest of RHP

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S

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What about ..... Qc7 Qa3 Nd5 He has to move the rook then we can make our move to Kb8?

s

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Originally posted by fetofs
At line a the move Qb4 is too passive. He could try to secure e5 with Re4 or (I think the best option) trade instantly. After Nxd7 the plan is to play Re4 really to take the well-controlled outpost. Well, g4 is a bad move.
a)21.g4 Nd7 22.Qb4 passive [22.Nxd7 Qxd7 23.Re4 Qc7 24.Re5 Qc7 This line leads to a game good for black; 22.Re4 is weak] Nxe5 23.dxe5 Rxd ...[text shortened]... e he is needed(f6-e8-d6). The game is better for black. It's the second best line. 23.Rh3 Nd6!]
At line a the move Qb4 is too passive. He could try to secure e5 with Re4 or (I think the best option) trade instantly. After Nxd7 the plan is to play Re4 really to take the well-controlled outpost. Well, g4 is a bad move.

After Re4 or Nxd7 Qxd7 Re4 black can create counterplay with f5.

b)21.Rh1 Nd7 [21...Ka8 Rh3 Rfe8 with holding expectations is better] 22.Nxd7 Qxd7 23.Qg3 Qc7 preventing a possible discovered check. White has complete control of the center, the game is probably White's. That's the most likely move(Rh1) because the rook wasn't really doing nothing and can be lifted by h3 or h4.

How about after 23. Qg3 e5 ? This also prevents a discovered check, and with a later Ka8 or Kc8 moving the king out of the pin. if 24. Re4 then f6; 24. Rg4 then Ka8. (24. dxe5?? Qd2+ 25. Kb1 Qd1+ 26. Rxd1 Rxd1🙄

c)21.Rh4 Nd5? Oh boy, that is WEAK! Rg4 is the most likely here(a move you didn't even listed) and black is L-O-S-T. Although the move Rg4 loses a move by going f4-h4-g4 it's a move to consider with your knight's lonely position at d5. All of the supporters are on the defensive, you won't have such a chance. [21...Rg8 preserving the position of the knight and anticipating Rg4 22.c4 trapping the rook 22...Ne8! That move is really worth an exclamation mark, because it was the whole point of playing Rg8. With e8 free, the knight can use it to go where he is needed(f6-e8-d6). The game is better for black. It's the second best line. 23.Rh3 Nd6!]

You didn't even tell me why it is a bad move. after 21. Rh4 Nd5 22. Rg4 black just moves 22. ...f6 or the more agressive 22. ...f5 . I really don't see how it would be a lost position.




f

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Originally posted by schakuhr
[b]At line a the move Qb4 is too passive. He could try to secure e5 with Re4 or (I think the best option) trade instantly. After Nxd7 the plan is to play Re4 really to take the well-controlled outpost. Well, g4 is a bad move.

After Re4 or Nxd7 Qxd7 Re4 black can create counterplay with f5.

b)21.Rh1 Nd7 [21...Ka8 Rh3 Rfe8 with holding expectatio ...[text shortened]... or the more agressive 22. ...f5 . I really don't see how it would be a lost position.




Well, that's my opinion....

a)21.g4 Nd7 22.Nxd7 Qxd7 23.Re4 f5 24.Qg3+! That's a pain.
b)Well, I must admit I haven't considered e5 in my analysis. Sorry😳
c) After 23...f5 you see the great weakness black has created on the kingside, it will be hard to defend that.A retreat does the job: 23.Rg3! preparing to gather more forces to the kingside.
23...f6 is obviously better, but again the retreat Nd3 is something to fear. Ne5-Nd3-Nc5! is a good horse maneuver... There's still the chance to attack the kingside weakness. I still keep my horse maneuver point: Rg8 Ne5! (I like horse maneuvers, don't I?)


s

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fetofs: I don't think you should analyse too many moves ahead, IM will surely move something else here and there.

Does anyone still want to discuss something?

Suggested moves:

19. ...Qc7
19. ...Kb8
19. ...Rd5
19. ...Qd6

f

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I'm ready to vote

tjs

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I don't see any other moves, but I am not really sure of our strategic plan.



Eg Qc7 - what does that actually achieve for us?

t
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c5 get a little gambit going

S

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Originally posted by Samdogg
What about ..... Qc7 Qa3 Nd5 He has to move the rook then we can make our move to Kb8?
Has anybody put any thought into this plan?

M

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Originally posted by katty
I don't think Rd5 is a good move! he can simply take his pawn to c4! trapping the rook! Kb8 is a good move! that knight of ours will have a perfect position if we take him to d5! but the pawn on f7 will be taken! that knight of his at the moment is causing too much trouble! we have to get rid of it as soon as possible! i prefer Kb8 now to protect that pawn on a7! its the best move i guess!
I'll suggest Rd5, even though kb8 is not bad.

19.... Rd5
20.) c4.... Ra5 (threaten a2 pawn)
if
21.) a3....then c5
if
21.) Kb1.... then Rfd8

If something after that goes wrong, you could always bring the rook back to Ra6.

buffalobill
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Originally posted by MooTheCow
I'll suggest Rd5, even though kb8 is not bad.

19.... Rd5
20.) c4.... Ra5 (threaten a2 pawn)
if
21.) a3....then c5
if
21.) Kb1.... then Rfd8

If something after that goes wrong, you could always bring the rook back to Ra6.
Rd5 is my personal choice.

Kb8 is not a good move at this juncture - 19. ...Kb8 20. Qb3 forces 21 ... Ka8 or Qc7 because of the threat of Nxc6. Soon after, he wangs the pawn up the centre and brings across the f4 Rook.

s

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Originally posted by buffalobill
Rd5 is my personal choice.

Kb8 is not a good move at this juncture - 19. ...Kb8 20. Qb3 forces 21 ... Ka8 or Qc7 because of the threat of Nxc6. Soon after, he wangs the pawn up the centre and brings across the f4 Rook.
I don't think Rd5 is all that handy - white gets lured to c4, and then there might be an d5 move that tears our position apart, just like in other games.

buffalobill
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Originally posted by schakuhr
I don't think Rd5 is all that handy - white gets lured to c4, and then there might be an d5 move that tears our position apart, just like in other games.
19. .... Rd5 20. Pc4 Ra5 21. Kb1 (or Qb3) Rd8 doesn't look too bad a position to me. If 21. Pa3 Pc5.

tjs

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shall we vote??

Ragnorak
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Game 868388



IM has played 20. c4

Get your thinking caps on.

D

s

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Originally posted by Ragnorak
Game 868388

[fen]2k2r2/pp2qpp1/2p1pn1p/3rN2P/2PP1R2/5Q2/PP3PP1/2KR4 b - c3 0 20[/fen]

IM has played 20. c4

Get your thinking caps on.

D
anything other than Ra5? I thought that was the point of the last move.

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