Originally posted by RagnorakThere are obviously lots of errors in the first couple of games, but I think the later two show that there is no immediate overwhelming attack around the corner, and that we will actually be in a position to make some choices of our own after ...Rhf8, 19. Qf3
Here are some games to have a look at...
Game 783257
[Event "West End op"]
[Site "Italy"]
[Date "1994.??.??"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Zelcic,Robert"]
[Black "Piro,Valerio"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Eco "B19"]
1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Bf5 5.Ng3 Bg6 6.h4 h6 7.h5 Bh7 8.Nf3 Nd7
9.Bd3 Bxd3 10.Qxd3 Qc7 11.Rh4 e6 12.Bf4 Bd6 13.Bxd6 ...[text shortened]... Nd5 looks good then. I thought 18 ...Kb8 looked good but schakuhr showed its not the best.
D
Originally posted by the jitty slitterRhf8 looks pretty much forced - which is not a bad thing because we've looked at the alternatives which all lead to a poor or losing position. On the plus side, it's a strengthening move, which is a good thing and reinforces the D-file.
There are obviously lots of errors in the first couple of games, but I think the later two show that there is no immediate overwhelming attack around the corner, and that we will actually be in a position to make some choices of our own after ...Rhf8, 19. Qf3
I think White will play 19. Qf3, but if not, what?
You've really got to admire his positional acumen, because everything is perfectly placed.
Originally posted by schakuhr
First I'd like to say that I think it isn't a good idea to think ahead much moves, as we may get nasty surprises with a player like IM.
after 18. ...Rd5 19. c4 Ra5 20. Kb1 Rd8 21. Qe2 Qd6 black can get into trouble with 22. Qd2! forcing the a5 rook to take the knight on e5:
22. ...Rxe5 23. dxe5 Qxd2 24.Rxd2 Rxd2 25.exf6 gxf6 26. Rxf6 and white has a w ...[text shortened]... e'll have to find something against 22. Qd2 then. I think 21. ...c5 might clear up the trouble.
ok instead of 21..... Qd6 what about 21..... Qc7
Originally posted by SamdoggBest to wait until we have made our next move. Even though it looks unlikely that it will be Rd5, it would be a bit pointless having two games going down the same line.
ok i have asked Ironman31 to play a set piece game with him for Rd5, if you have objections to this tell me now and I will stop immediatly. I mean if you, Ragnorak think it is cheating.
Its really up to you and IM to sort it out though, and if ye want to start immediately, feel free.
D
Originally posted by WeadleyGame 868388
Kingside castle would be the death of us.
His pawns are ready to march on the king side.
I like Queen side castling.
What are the downsides to 0-0-0 ?
edit: i posted from page 20 but now its gone to page 24?
Where are we in this game?
D
just to refresh what we are considering:
Game 868388
we are black to move.
the two moves still argued for seem to be Rhf8, and Rd5.
Nxh5 seems to have been destroyed.
can you see any other options for us?
or can you add to the arguements for or against Rhf8, and Rd5?
Originally posted by SamdoggI think it's a good alternative. Don't think too much ahead though. I just feel that Rd5 and after requires precise play by black, and Rhf8 doesn't complicate matters all that much.
Originally posted by schakuhr
First I'd like to say that I think it isn't a good idea to think ahead much moves, as we may get nasty surprises with a player like IM.
after 18. ...Rd5 19. c4 Ra5 20. Kb1 Rd8 21. Qe2 Qd6 black can get into trouble with 22. Qd2! forcing the a5 rook to take the knight on e5:
22. ...Rxe5 23. dxe5 Qxd2 24.Rxd2 Rxd2 25.exf ...[text shortened]... ink 21. ...c5 might clear up the trouble.
ok instead of 21..... Qd6 what about 21..... Qc7
Originally posted by JayLou
I suggest Kb8.
Originally posted by Kaoslos
Kb8? Qxc6!
Originally posted by Kyo
After the knight takes the queen, the knight is trapped, so effectively, white has sacrified his knight for just two pawns.
Originally posted by Kaoslos
bxc Kxc Kc7 Nxq Kd7/6 Nf5! exf Rxf. White got 3 pawns and they are already clear to push. Besides his rock's are better placed than all blacks pices. To accept this Black shoud make som very long calculations and be sure he can hold that ending. I think white is winning in this variation.
Originally posted by Kaoslosif black moves 20. ...bxc6? indeed. But black has better:
bxc Kxc Kc7 Nxq Kd7/6 Nf5! exf Rxf. White got 3 pawns and they are already clear to push. Besides his rock's are better placed than all blacks pices. To accept this Black shoud make som very long calculations and be sure he can hold that ending. I think white is winning in this variation.
20. ...Nd5! (in between move!)
a)21. Qb5 Qg5! 22. g3 Nxf4 23. Nc6+ (or gxf4 Qxf4+ -+) Kc7 24. Qxg5 hxg5 25. Nxd8 Nxh5! 26. Nxb7 Kxb7 - white has sacrificed a knight for 1 pawn.
b)21. Rg4 f6! 22. Ng6 bxc6 23. Nxe7 Nxe7 24. Rxg7 - white has indeed sacrificed a knight for 2 pawns, now with cleared up situation.
so I dont think white will try 20. Qxc6?.