Only Chess
24 Jan 05
11 May 05
Originally posted by buffalobillI don't think it would be a bad idea. If we go 19 .... Qc7 then 20 Qa3 then can't we just go with 20... Nd7?
Qc7 for Black is a big, fat hairy mistake until the pawn on a7 is secured. White just shifts the Queen to a3 upon which your problems have just begun.
19... Qc7
Qa3 Nd7 the knight is pinned because if it moves then we pick off the rook. if this
21 Rxf7 Rxf7
Nxf7 Qf4+
We pick off the knight so I don't think it would be to bad.
11 May 05
1 edit
Originally posted by Samdoggwe can't just go with 20. ...Nd7?, because of 21. Qxa7.
I don't think it would be a bad idea. If we go 19 .... Qc7 then 20 Qa3 then can't we just go with 20... Nd7?
19... Qc7
Qa3 Nd7 the knight is pinned because if it moves then we pick off the rook. if this
21 Rxf7 Rxf7
Nxf7 ...[text shortened]... Qf4+
We pick off the knight so I don't think it would be to bad.
Edit: I don't see much trouble after 20. ...Kb8.
11 May 05
Originally posted by SamdoggWhite can go Qxa7. It's imperative to keep the king position as secure as possible, therefore I think the queen must stay on e7 to cover a3 until we secure the a7 pawn. We can do so with Kb8, but do you think there could be discovered threats along the b8-h2 diagonal? Just something black would like to avoid in the long run.
I don't think it would be a bad idea. If we go 19 .... Qc7 then 20 Qa3 then can't we just go with 20... Nd7?
19... Qc7
Qa3 Nd7 the knight is pinned because if it moves then we pick off the rook. if this
21 Rxf7 Rxf7
Nxf7 Qf4+
We pick off the knight so I don't think it would be to bad.
Keeping the king on c8 won't expose the king to potential checks.
11 May 05
Originally posted by SamdoggActually, your post is a bit funny. You missed 22... Qxf7, that would be easier, don't you think? 😀
I don't think it would be a bad idea. If we go 19 .... Qc7 then 20 Qa3 then can't we just go with 20... Nd7?
19... Qc7
Qa3 Nd7 the knight is pinned because if it moves then we pick off the rook. if this
21 Rxf7 Rxf7
Nxf7 Qf4+
We pick off the knight so I don't think it would be to bad.
But that's clearly good for Black. If it is good for Black, there must be another move. If it's good for Black, our great IronMan won't play it. He instead would play Rg4 or Rf3, securing the rook and an easy win.
But at least I like your Qc7 point of view 😉
I've actually seen that a position with Qc7 and Rd5 is very favourable. That's our potential threat. Now let's look at IM31's potential threat. His potential threat is to lift his rook with Rh1 and Rd3. Clearly the first move (and probably the best move) to look at would be Rd3. Then our response would be to lift ours too, to have a force to defend. But we move,and I think in c7 the queen guards a5 (I'm starting to think on Rd5 😀 ) and b8 covering the possible future mating threat of Qa8.
Well, but after Qc7 we'll play Rd5, so it doesn't matter.
12 May 05
Here's my plan:
What is there going to follow after 20. ...Kb8 ?
White will first secure the h-pawn I think, so either g4, Rh1 or Rh4.
Then we can try to trade off the knight on e5.
a) 21. g4 Nd7 22. Qb4 Nxe5 23. dxe5 Rxd1+ 24. Kxd1 etc.
b) 21. Rh1 Nd7 and trading off the knight on e5.
c) 21. Rh4 Nd5 (if Nd7, then Nxd7 Qxd7 (Rxd7 Qxf8+ +-) Qg3+ and Qxg7) not sure what he will move now, c4 is most probably, also Rd3, Qc5 or Re4
tell me what you think of this.
12 May 05
Originally posted by schakuhrAnother choice for White: After 20. ... Kb8 21. Qb3 forces something like 21 ... Ka8 or Qc7 because of the threat of Nxc6, forking King and Queen. Then he'll concern himself with protecting the h5 pawn.
Here's my plan:
What is there going to follow after 20. ...Kb8 ?
White will first secure the h-pawn I think, so either g4, Rh1 or Rh4.
Then we can try to trade off the knight on e5.
a) 21. g4 Nd7 22. Qb4 Nxe5 23. dxe5 Rxd1+ 24. Kxd1 etc.
b) 21. Rh1 Nd7 and trading off the knight on e5.
c) 21. Rh4 Nd5 (if Nd7, then Nxd7 Qxd7 (Rxd7 Qxf8+ +-) Qg3+ ...[text shortened]... he will move now, c4 is most probably, also Rd3, Qc5 or Re4
tell me what you think of this.
a) 21. g4 Nd7 22. Nxf7 looks just as likely
b) 21. Rh1 - I don't know why the obsession with the h1 move. IM's an aggressive player and he's not going to bother about the h5 pawn for now when it's not necessary and there's attacking moves around.
c) 21. Rh4 Nd5 22.Rg4 looks more likely, attacking the g7 Pawn which has nowhere to go.
12 May 05
1 edit
Originally posted by buffalobillhmm - I think I should have added that I meant 20. ...Kb8 after 19. ...Qc7 20. Qa3.
Another choice for White: After 20. ... Kb8 21. Qb3 forces something like 21 ... Ka8 or Qc7 because of the threat of Nxc6, forking King and Queen. Then he'll concern himself with protecting the h5 pawn.
a) 21. g4 Nd7 22. Nxf7 looks ...[text shortened]... looks more likely, attacking the g7 Pawn which has nowhere to go.
Sorry for the bunch of useless work buffalobill.
12 May 05
Originally posted by schakuhrWell, at least it shows some good reasons why not 19. ... Kb8.
hmm - I think I should have added that I meant 20. ...Kb8 after 19. ...Qc7 20. Qa3.
Sorry for the bunch of useless work buffalobill.
Your line looks okay, too. 20. ... Kb8 21. Rh4 is a racing certainty and I'd put money on it.
12 May 05
Originally posted by schakuhrAt line a the move Qb4 is too passive. He could try to secure e5 with Re4 or (I think the best option) trade instantly. After Nxd7 the plan is to play Re4 really to take the well-controlled outpost. Well, g4 is a bad move.
Here's my plan:
What is there going to follow after 20. ...Kb8 ?
White will first secure the h-pawn I think, so either g4, Rh1 or Rh4.
Then we can try to trade off the knight on e5.
a) 21. g4 Nd7 22. Qb4 Nxe5 23. dxe5 Rxd1+ 24. Kxd1 etc.
b) 21. Rh1 Nd7 and trading off the knight on e5.
c) 21. Rh4 Nd5 (if Nd7, then Nxd7 Qxd7 (Rxd7 Qxf8+ +-) Qg3+ ...[text shortened]... he will move now, c4 is most probably, also Rd3, Qc5 or Re4
tell me what you think of this.
a)21.g4 Nd7 22.Qb4 passive [22.Nxd7 Qxd7 23.Re4 Qc7 24.Re5 Qc7 This line leads to a game good for black; 22.Re4 is weak] Nxe5 23.dxe5 Rxd1+ 24.Kxd1
b)21.Rh1 Nd7 [21...Ka8 Rh3 Rfe8 with holding expectations is better] 22.Nxd7 Qxd7 23.Qg3 Qc7 preventing a possible discovered check. White has complete control of the center, the game is probably White's. That's the most likely move(Rh1) because the rook wasn't really doing nothing and can be lifted by h3 or h4.
c)21.Rh4 Nd5? Oh boy, that is WEAK! Rg4 is the most likely here(a move you didn't even listed) and black is L-O-S-T. Although the move Rg4 loses a move by going f4-h4-g4 it's a move to consider with your knight's lonely position at d5. All of the supporters are on the defensive, you won't have such a chance. [21...Rg8 preserving the position of the knight and anticipating Rg4 22.c4 trapping the rook 22...Ne8! That move is really worth an exclamation mark, because it was the whole point of playing Rg8. With e8 free, the knight can use it to go where he is needed(f6-e8-d6). The game is better for black. It's the second best line. 23.Rh3 Nd6!]
13 May 05
Originally posted by buffalobillAgreed, we cannot let him get in d5 under any circumstances.
I haven't gone through all your lines but again I ask why the obsession with Rh1? Rh4 does the same job, followed by Rh3. At the right time, IM will punch with the d4 pawn and he'll want the Rook there in support.
If we get voting soon, I'm pushing for Rd5.