Only Chess
24 Jan 05
21 Apr 05
Originally posted by schakuhr17... Nd5 18.Qf3 f5 19.Ng6 Qg5+ 20.Kb1 Ne7 21.Nxh8 Qxh4
I don't know, after 20. ...Ne7 there would follow 21. Nxh8 Qxh4 and then alot is possible... I think 22. Qb3, attacking b7 and e6, and the queen will take on of both, so then we have no castling.
after 17. ...O-O-O 18. Rf4 Rhf8 19. Qf3 Qd6, and equality. not 19. Qg3?? Nxh5 -+
At 22. Qb3 and white gives up his rook. (....Qe7xh4)
"after 17. ...O-O-O 18. Rf4 Rhf8 19. Qf3 Qd6, and equality. not 19. Qg3?? Nxh5 -+"
(not 19. Qg3?? Nxh5 -+ I don't understand that reference)
Where I white 19....Qd6 looks like black is threatening a Q exchange, and 20.Rd3 or c4 could be the response. I can see it's workable, although white still controls center. Thanks for the banter clanmate.
21 Apr 05
Originally posted by xswhite giving up his rook was the point. He gets a rook back for it and the black queen is in a bad position, and the king really needs to castle, but cant.
17... Nd5 18.Qf3 f5 19.Ng6 Qg5+ 20.Kb1 Ne7 21.Nxh8 Qxh4
At 22. Qb3 and white gives up his rook. (....Qe7xh4)
[b]"after 17. ...O-O-O 18. Rf4 Rhf8 19. Qf3 Qd6, and equality. not 19. Qg3?? Nxh5 -+"
(not 19. Qg3?? Nxh5 -+ I don't understand that reference)
Where I white 19....Qd6 looks like black is threatening a Q exchange, and 20.Rd3 or c4 ...[text shortened]... an see it's workable, although white still controls center. Thanks for the banter clanmate.
[/b]
(not 19. Qg3?? Nxh5 -+ I don't understand that reference)
I just noticed this, white can't try to attack/take the g-pawn.
Where I white 19....Qd6 looks like black is threatening a Q exchange, and 20.Rd3 or c4 could be the response.
or 20. g4, or c3, or whatever. many possibilities here.
22 Apr 05
Originally posted by schakuhr17... Nd5 18.Qf3 f5 19.Ng6 Qg5+ 20.Kb1 Ne7 21.Nxh8 Qxh4 22. Qb3 Qxh4
white giving up his rook was the point. He gets a rook back for it and the black queen is in a bad position, and the king really needs to castle, but cant.
While white can in fact take the two pawns you previous mentioned, I cannot see white taking the rook, because black can castle.
23.Qxb7 O-O 24.Qxc6 Qe4
22 Apr 05
Originally posted by xsyou are making a big mistake.. following this line 21.Nxh8 Qxh4 22. Qb3 Qxh4 you are taking the rook on h4 two times...
17... Nd5 18.Qf3 f5 19.Ng6 Qg5+ 20.Kb1 Ne7 21.Nxh8 Qxh4 22. Qb3 Qxh4
While white can in fact take the two pawns you previous mentioned, I cannot see white taking the rook, because black can castle.
23.Qxb7 O-O 24.Qxc6 Qe4
and then you also think black can still castle kingside while the h8 rook is missing?
22 Apr 05
Originally posted by schakuhrSorry...my bad, I mixed up pasting from two separate variations:
you are making a big mistake.. following this line 21.Nxh8 [b]Qxh4 22. Qb3 Qxh4 you are taking the rook on h4 two times...
and then you also think black can still castle kingside while the h8 rook is missing?[/b]
(or I was thinking of castling using whites knight 😳)
17... Nd5 18.Qf3 f5 19.Ng6 Qg5+ 20.Kb1 Ne7 21.Nxe7 Qxe7 22.Rf4 O-O.
17... Nd5 18.Qf3 f5 19.Ng6 Qg5+ 20.Kb1 Ne7 21.Nxh8 Qxh4 22.Qb3 Rd8 23.Qxb7 Qxh5 (not too bad a position for blacks queen).
25 Apr 05
Here's another game with the same position
[Event "Vienna op"]
[Site "Vienna"]
[Date "1996.??.??"]
[Round "5"]
[White "Glek, Igor V"]
[Black "Hertan, Charles E"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "B19"]
[WhiteElo "2670"]
[BlackElo "2410"]
[PlyCount "81"]
[EventDate "1996.08.??"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Bf5 5. Ng3 Bg6 6. h4 h6 7. Nf3 Nd7 8. h5
Bh7 9. Bd3 Bxd3 10. Qxd3 Qc7 11. Rh4 e6 12. Bf4 Bd6 13. Bxd6 Qxd6 14. Ne4 Qe7
15. O-O-O Ngf6 16. Nxf6+ Nxf6 17. Ne5 O-O-O 18. Rf4 Kb8 19. Qf3 Rhf8 20. Rd3
Qc7 21. a3 a6 22. Kb1 Ka7 23. g4 Kb8 24. Rxf6 gxf6 25. Qxf6 Rh8 26. Qxf7 Rhf8
27. Qxe6 Rd6 28. Qc4 Rxf2 29. Rb3 Rd2 30. Qxa6 R2xd4 31. Nc4 R6d5 32. Ne3 Re5
33. Qf1 Qe7 34. Qf3 Rde4 35. Nf5 Qe6 36. Qg3 Qc4 37. Qf2 Rxg4 38. Rxb7+ Kxb7
39. Nd6+ Ka6 40. Nxc4 Rxc4 41. Qf1 1-0
25 Apr 05
4 edits
why shouldn't we play 18 ... Nxh5?
we hit the f4 rook for a tempo and control, we eat a pawn, we open our queen to the g5 check square which forks the undefended g2 pawn, we get rid of our f pawn, we let our rooks out.
there must be a good reason not to do it ... what?
(i assume 19 Rxf7 is likely, then we play Qg5+)
25 Apr 05
Originally posted by flexmoreIsn't Rxf7 a bit terminal after that?
why shouldn't we play 18 ... Nxh5?
we hit the f4 rook for a tempo, we eat a pawn, we open our queen to the g5 check square which forks the undefended g2 pawn.
there must be a good reason not to do it ... what?
25 Apr 05
Originally posted by flexmoresorry I edited that thread when I realised that the knight could be taken by the queen but still white can play Qb3 and the game is over!
and Qxc6
So Qxg2? would lose, maybe if you want to go for the h-pawn it has to be prepared by Rhf8 first.
25 Apr 05
Originally posted by demonseedYup, you get opened up like a can of sardines.
Isn't Rxf7 a bit terminal after that?
Currently, the Queen's stuck to its present black diagonal because of Qa3. The knight's also stuck because it's protecting the pawn on f7. The choices as I see it are Kb8 to protect the a8 pawn or hRf8 to protect the pawn on f7.
I say the second one (Rf8) because it gives mobility to the knight, thus Nd7 enabling you to simplify against the dominant White knight.
Now I'm arguing against myself, what if 18 ....Rf8. 19. Qf3 Nd7 20 Nxc6...? We've got to explore this line which is not necessarily disastrous but certainly risky.
Now how about 19 .... Rd5 or Nd5? 19... Rd5 looks dodgy because of 20. Pc4 but the knight move?
If Rf8 doesn't work out then Kb8 must surely be it.