03 Mar 06
Originally posted by Grandmoustermy sense of right and wrong ... tells me to do it without winging ...
Maybe its a case of a misunderstood word. In my chess circles, when anyone mentions "sandbagger" They mean someone who, of course, lose's points, to play in money tourneys, as a "lower rated player"
But it could also mean anyone who is playing at a lower rating, but is really stronger.
This would cover many internet identities on chess playing sites. ...[text shortened]... sonal Integrity and values, and see how your sense of "right" and "wrong" holds up.
but like you, i am often wrong.
03 Mar 06
Originally posted by GrandmousterWhat do you want him to do?
What i saw with this player in question, is he wanted to get his points back, and had no problem playing higher rated players, because he know he would win, and his 1200 rating would be 1600, in no time.
Play 1200 players?
That's not "fair" on the 1200 players either
Whoever he plays, his rating is below his ability
Your rating has been as 1700+
Are you sandbagging now with your 1634 rating
Were you sandbagging in November when your rating was 1470
03 Mar 06
Originally posted by GrandmousterI thought this was so funny at first (sorry I know it's not nice to derive humour from others' misfortunes...but it's only because it's nice to see that it happens to other players as well as ME and after all it's a chess game not someone being diagnosed with cancer). I mean how (I thought) you had obviously gone momentarily insane because you thought someone rated lower than you had out played you (happens to me). But come on this is now days later! are you really this stupid? look at all the reasonable players that have tried to explain this to you. Play against me and I will resign after a few moves, then you will get those points back, challenge me and I promise I will accept then resign (how many moves do I have to play for the game to count for ratings anyone?).
Maybe its a case of a misunderstood word. In my chess circles, when anyone mentions "sandbagger" They mean someone who, of course, lose's points, to play in money tourneys, as a "lower rated player"
But it could also mean anyone who is playing at a lower rating, but is really stronger.
This would cover many internet identities on chess playing sites. ...[text shortened]... sonal Integrity and values, and see how your sense of "right" and "wrong" holds up.
03 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by GrandmousterNo, you can't apply the term "sandbagger" so broadly. Under your defintion, any expert-level player who first starts playing here is sandbagging.
Maybe its a case of a misunderstood word. In my chess circles, when anyone mentions "sandbagger" They mean someone who, of course, lose's points, to play in money tourneys, as a "lower rated player"
But it could also mean anyone who is playing at a lower rating, but is really stronger.
"What i saw with this player in question, is he wanted to get his points back, and had no problem playing higher rated players, because he know he would win, and his 1200 rating would be 1600, in in no time."
Once again, how is it not in his best interest, and the interest of his future opponenets, that he restores his true rating as quickly as possible?
"So for all the supporters of this "victim" i would suggest you take a long hard look at your own Personal Integrity and values, and see how your sense of "right" and "wrong" holds up."
Oh, of course. It reminds me of that ancient parable about the little boy who wanted to play in the big village chess tournament, but the elders told him that he would be sandbagging because he hadn't established his true rating to the rest of the village. The boy played anyway, won the entire tournament, and was shunned by the village elders.
First of all, when you ask us to take a look at our sense of right and wrong, you're assuming that we value our rating with the same fervor that you value your's. We don't, for the most part. It's just a number, designed to give a relative indication of our playing strength, and it is not, by any means, extremely accurate. That being said, if the rating you held before GS took those points for you was your true playing strength, then you will eventually get those points back. If not, then that rating was inflated anyway, and GS did you a favor by taking those points and bringing you back to your true rating.
03 Mar 06
Originally posted by GrandmousterIf he knew he would win, how comes that you won one of your games? He played people with a similar playing strength, i.e. people who had a fair chance of winning the game. And it's you who suggests he should play players with a similar rating (rather than similar playing strength) who wouldn't stand a chance against him...
What i saw with this player in question, is he wanted to get his points back, and had no problem playing higher rated players, because he know he would win, and his 1200 rating would be 1600, in no time.
03 Mar 06
Originally posted by dottewelllol i know what you mean, but suprisingly Grandmouster keeps coming back for more (again and again and again) he can have some free points off me, then hopefully we can all get on with our lives again and pretend it never happened.
Please, please, please - someone close this thread.
03 Mar 06
Originally posted by GrandmousterIn most tournaments in the USCF, players who sandbag do not get as far as they would normally. They drop all those points, and then go into a tournament like the World OPEN with an $8,000 1st place prize in an under 1200 CLASS section. But, if you read the fine print under the tournament information in CHESS LIFE, it says players who have played less that 20 games cannot win top prize and are only limited to $2,500. Also, players who were once rated at 1500 say and try to enter an under 1200 section will not get the $8,000 either. They'll get $2,500 for winning. How do I know? Well, I have an 1152 USCF tournament rating - not very strong. My real OTB rating is somewhere between 1700 - 1800 in standard play. No joke! So, I thought one day with my step-Dad, "Why don't I sandbag the World Open!???" CASH MAN! Well, then we read the fine print. You see, I had gone to a tournament about 10 years ago and played the Stonewall Attack in every White game. I was obliterated completely by the who club! HAHA I didn't win a single game. I felt so stupid! But, my rating dropped from 1275 provisional to 1152. Well, since I have such a low USCF rating, I thought I could just go in and sweep the under 1200 and grab my $8,000. But, the following must be considered:
Had a game with someone with no morals.
Started out 1200, and was 1400, but really was 1600+
They even admited they were too busy to make moves, or some lame excuse, and timed out a lot of games.
My point was, why should someone lose points to a sandbagger, who wont play at a "honest" rating
1.) Have you played 20 games in the last year? No I haven't. That rating is eternal but it's dated at 10 years before. So, I don't qualify for the $8,000 if I win. Only can win $2,500 and just the trip to New York from Hawaii would be most of that, not forgetting hotel room costs even at chess rates.
2.) How important is $2500 even if I could have it all and not spend a penny when compared to knowing your real strength in OTB among avid series players? I think knowing your real rating and feeling a sense of accomplishment against your real CLASS of players is a wonderful experience.
3.) Eventually, your rating will get to high, and you will still not qualify for top prize. And, what do you do to get your rating down again? That seems to me to be a lot of work for little cash. I could work at Taco Bell and make more money and spend less money.
In the end, sandbagging doesn't work too well in tournament any longer in the USCF. In the old days, you could sanbag big time! But, they soon learned their lesson when one guy ended up sweeping all the opponent like they were nothing! hehe
03 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by GalaxyShieldOhhh, so this is the sandbagging Grandmouster is talking about? I don't think sandbagging is applicable to redhotpawn.com. OTB is different. But, you know, the best thing to do is make sure you're 200 points stronger than the section you're playing in when in OTB events. Then you have a safety net for sandbaggers. But, I would like to show you a classic game against Grandmouster that I played against him. I wasn't playing at my full strength, but I managed to nab a win off the grandmaster:
Grandmouster is talking about me. Yes I timed out in games and went way down. But what am I supposed to do in this situation? Only play people rated wayyyy lower than what I should be playing? That is real sandbagging. I'm playing 1600's and 1700's because that's my level of play, am I supposed to take advantage of lower rated players because I wasn't h appretiate being called one myself when I'm not trying to take advantage of everyone.
Game 1683218
Enjoy!
04 Mar 06
Originally posted by powershakerAh... $2500 is still a lot of money.
In most tournaments in the USCF, players who sandbag do not get as far as they would normally. They drop all those points, and then go into a tournament like the World OPEN with an $8,000 1st place prize in an under 1200 CLASS section. But, if you read the fine print under the tournament information in CHESS LIFE, it says players who have played less t ...[text shortened]... eir lesson when one guy ended up sweeping all the opponent like they were nothing! hehe
You could pull it off. If you lived in the place they were holding the tournament, no need to worry about hotel etc...
Plus you don't need to go for the big doh..
I could easily drop my rating join the lower section, pay the $20 entry and win the $100 prize.
Anyone could do this = sandbagging.
04 Mar 06
Originally posted by powershakerOtb, you don't choose your pairings. On here you can pretty much do it.
Ohhh, so this is the sandbagging Grandmouster is talking about? I don't think sandbagging is applicable to redhotpawn.com. OTB is different. But, you know, the best thing to do is make sure you're 200 points stronger than the section you're playing in when in OTB events. Then you have a safety net for sandbaggers. But, I would like to show you a cla ...[text shortened]... ll strength, but I managed to nab a win off the grandmaster:
Game 1683218
Enjoy!
With sectionals it doesn't work. They pair you with people in your rating section +/- 50ish points depending on how many players show up.
04 Mar 06
1 edit
Originally posted by aging blitzerI'm sandbagging to win a free membership on redhotpawn. Just kidding! I wish they did give an extra year to someone who wins a Sprint tournament on RHP or something. That would be cool! My rating now: 1588! 1700-1799 is my real OTB strength in standard OTB play. But, I'm not sandbagging. It's just playing without sources, no databases and no help from the use of engines. I'm sure a lot of players have suffered the brunt of losing to me because they DON'T cheat like I DON'T cheat. And, even though they lose to me, I respect them for not cheating. However, I think it's sad that one pebble dropped in a pond can send shockwaves through an entire body of players. But, I'm hoping RHP is not infested with intermittent cheaters unlike what my paranoid chess instinct sometimes leaves me to believe. You know the ones I'm talking about? They are losing the first 30 moves of the game, and you're just tactically obliterating them, and suddenly they no longer make mistakes and turn the tables against you when you're up a rook and a knight? LOL Intermittent cheaters. Impossible to catch. So, sometimes, I feel like I should just settle for a 1600-1699 rating on RHP, because to get a good solid 1700s rating on RHP is like pulling teeth! And, not to mention when you've won about five or more games against a 1700+ player, but by the time you get the win his rating is 1454 - 900 one time I remember. So, I just try not to take a game so seriously as to ruin your whole mood. In the end, it is only just a game of art and beauty? Agree? And, the day I get a 1700 rating on RHP, then I'll know I truly earned it with my own knowledge and skill. No database. No engine. No nothing! Just me! My billions of neurons. My fingers at the keyboard. My creativity. All just me and me alone. 🙂 Maybe one day soon. Who knows? I need 112 rating points to hit 1700 on RHP. Then, I can rest in peace if I drop back to 1588-1600 say. Then, I'll know I had it in me.
What do you want him to do?
Play 1200 players?
That's not "fair" on the 1200 players either
Whoever he plays, his rating is below his ability
Your rating has been as 1700+
Are you sandbagging now with your 1634 rating
Were you sandbagging in November when your rating was 1470