So, Who's Used A Computer To Cheat, I Know I Know

Should we care if people are cheating or not, I don't know any more .. as many people have said they are only cheating themselves.

However obviously many players are concerned, and that's a good enough reason to do something. So what we need is a low maintenance way of id them and eventually outing them or at least making them stop.

Plus the main point here has to be we don't want the administrators to spend their time doing nothing but spotting cheaters, so it has to be down to us the users. By which I actually mean you, I don't have a engine to check anything even if I had the time.

So how about we start a new thread very much in the form of eyesgreywithsorrow's approach, ie a list of moves a players has made (without id the player in question). Then the great and the good can comment. Should the consensus agree, say five players without contradiction, then the moderators will be messaged with the accusation and background prove. They then will need to give the accused a chance to respond - which again could be posted anonymously for scrutiny. And eventually action taken.

Any improvements on the above process are welcomed but the main points are we can't expect the administrators to do all the work or indeed any, and we need very solid grounds for accusation before they can take action.

What do think? Any suggestions?

Sounds like a good idea. If people run the risk of getting caught I think that will diminish the amount of people cheating in an instant. I dont think one of their games is quite enough to prove, since positions can arrise where the play will follow that of an engine, but since their last 300 games (I think) are open to all it shouldnt be hard to prove a pattern. The only question is who do you pick to look at the games once they have been posted, like all aspects of chess, from openings to keeping good time control, computer chess is a expertise in itself. People dont need to be great or even good at chess to check if someone is using an engine, they just have to look for a pattern of engine play. Its not something that can easily be explained, and every engine has its own pattern, although they are all clearly computers. This means that if a game was posted here, it would have to be nailed down to one or two engines for a few games. I think a few things would have to be agreed up on before hand. The number of the players games that have to be posted to prove, idealy they should be against higher rated players as this is when people are more likely to cheat, and a percentage rate for the amount of moves lining up to an engine. A lot of them will only us it in the middle/end game, like the person iv been pulling my games to post from. As long as everyone can agree that over sufficent games humans dont play like computer then it should be ok :-)

I care about cheating! 🙁

It's worse than athletes using drugs in my opinion. At least drug using athletes have to put some effort into their achievement.

Sadly I don't think there is any viable way to stop them on rhp. The best idea I've heard is the commission idea of several top players examining games but do they have the time?

They are unlikely to be right all the time either and that would mean an innocent user being removed and that isn't on either.

There is also a point about the number of different engines around for use. I have over 70 different engines, ranging from well know ones like fritz and junior to ones others such as an unamed java chess program. Running fritz against someones games who have used nimzo will sort of hint that they are dodgy but it wont prove they are cheating. But if we do force them to move away from main line engines, then I think that they will have to be very creative in the use of lesser engines to get the same results.

Originally posted by gumbie
I care about cheating! 🙁

It's worse than athletes using drugs in my opinion. At least drug using athletes have to put some effort into their achievement.

Sadly I don't think there is any viable way to stop them on rhp. The best idea I've heard is the commission idea of several top players examining games but do they have the time?

They are unlik ...[text shortened]... ll the time either and that would mean an innocent user being removed and that isn't on either.

lol, ok get this

Kranium Profile

I am a programmer & expert player interested in Kasparov Advanced Chess (http://www.chessbase.com/events/events.asp?pid=133). I sometimes use my chess program Alderon during games. (Alderon is available for blitz games on the ICC & is rated ~2000). Alderon is purely tactical, w/ no opening book, no positional knowledge, & no endgame tables. Please feel free to utilize analysis engines, books, or other resources during the game in order to advance the quality of play & theoretical soundness.


Is this proof enough ? :-)

Well maybe the only way to know if it will work is to give it a go.

Eyesgreywithsorrow, how about repeating the second of your posts with moves on from an earlier post (but this time with the engine notes), on a new thread with the title something like: "Is this an engine cheater - we need your help".

Then based upon the response; gathering all evidence and submitting to the site admin (noting in private the accused) and then asking them to ask the accused for an explanation which could be posted anonymously for scrutiny.

Not sure if this will work, but is the best approach I can think of.

Signing out for some sleep - Dave

I think its best to test the water before jumping in on this matter, we are all guests on this site. See what people say and if they think its a good ideas and the admins dont slap us all silleh then sure :-)

Originally posted by Grayeyesofsorrow
Kranium Profile

Is this proof enough ? :-)

lol, I guess some people would argue that he admits it in his profile so you cant kick him off. Wouldnt that be a catch 22 !!! 😵

Originally posted by Grayeyesofsorrow
lol, I guess some people would argue that he admits it in his profile so you cant kick him off. Wouldnt that be a catch 22 !!! 😵

Originally posted by TRACKHEAD21
lmao, thats funny, but actually according to my email from chrismo engine use is forbidden in the tos. Personally I never read the thing so I don't know what it really says about engine use. Anyway I cant believe this thread is still going but heres what I had to say. well I just took care of my problem. I resigned my matches against human players that ...[text shortened]... s and help my clans move up by winning my clan matches but other than that I don't really care.

Originally posted by TRACKHEAD21
lmao, thats funny, but actually according to my email from chrismo engine use is forbidden in the tos. Personally I never read the thing so I don't know what it really says about engine use. Anyway I cant believe this thread is still going but heres what I had to say. well I just took care of my problem. I resigned my matches against human players that ...[text shortened]... s and help my clans move up by winning my clan matches but other than that I don't really care.

Originally posted by The Slow Pawn
Clan leaders

KICK Trackhead

That is all I can say to this topic !!!

Originally posted by Grayeyesofsorrow
...Just on another note, i was playing on uchess the other day and picked a very common opening against one of the top players. They took the same time over each of the opening moves down to move 8, so i went and opened up fritz and put the game into it blow for blow. Looking at the game later on the player followed fritz 8 for over 50 moves in und ...[text shortened]... play them, but it seems the cheating isnt just limited to the correspondence side of this site.