14 Apr 20
@metal-brain saidYou can consume as much selenium as you want, not going to have much effect if you're already obese.
Nope. Eating is easier.
15 Apr 20
@proper-knob saidAre you saying black people are fat?
You can consume as much selenium as you want, not going to have much effect if you're already obese.
@metal-brain saidHow can that assertion of his possibly imply that?
Are you saying black people are fat?
The word 'black' or the equivalent wasn't mentioned there.
@metal-brain saidWhat?
Are you saying black people are fat?
The data coming out of the UK from the The Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre (ICNARC) who looked at 3883 patients in ICU with Covid-19 found they were disproportionately obese and male.
https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
This is what i'm saying. This virus is having a bad outcome for people who have underlying health conditions and people who are overweight are considerably likely to have an underlying health condition than people who aren't.
@metal-brain saidI'm saying this -
Are you saying black people are fat?
In 2018, black adults had the highest overweight and obesity rates of any race or ethnicity in the United States, followed by American Indians/Alaska Natives and Hispanics. As of that time, around 73 percent of all black adults were either overweight or obese.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/207436/overweight-and-obesity-rates-for-adults-by-ethnicity/
15 Apr 20
@proper-knob saidWhat is your point? What does this have to do with what I was talking about?
What?
The data coming out of the UK from the The Intensive Care National Audit & Research Centre (ICNARC) who looked at 3883 patients in ICU with Covid-19 found they were disproportionately obese and male.
https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
This is what i'm saying. This virus is having a bad outcome for people who have underlying health conditio ...[text shortened]... re overweight are considerably likely to have an underlying health condition than people who aren't.
15 Apr 20
@metal-brain saidwhat was yours with your "Are you saying black people are fat?" when clearly he wasn't saying that?
What is your point?
@proper-knob saidThe corresponding figures for the UK are available below [1]. From the ICNARC document [3] available from the page [2], and the UK obesity figures I worked out relative risks for being overweight and relative risks for being admitted to ICU with covid-19 compared with non-covid-19 pneumonia by ethnicity. The results demonstrate that what is happening cannot be explained by differences in BMI between ethnicities:
I'm saying this -
In 2018, black adults had the highest overweight and obesity rates of any race or ethnicity in the United States, followed by American Indians/Alaska Natives and Hispanics. As of that time, around 73 percent of all black adults were either overweight or obese.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/207436/overweight-and-obesity-rates-for-adults-by-ethnicity/
Relative risk of being overweight = % of ethnicity overweight / % of all overweight.
Relative risk of being admitted to ICU for covid-19 vs non-covid-19 pneumonia = (% of ICU covid-19 patients of ethnicity)/(% of ICU non-covid-19 patients of ethnicity)
ethnicity | RR of being overweight | RR of being in ICU for covid-19 compared with non-covid-19
Asian | 0.87 | 2.23
Black | 1.17 | 3.86
Mixed | 0.94 | 1.26
Other | 0.94 | 2.57
White | 1.00 | 0.67
So it looks to me as if the most likely explanation is to do with the frequencies of variations of ACE2 genes in different ethnicities. With a secondary effect from the worst outbreak being in the big cities where non-white people are relatively over-represented.
While you are right that BMI is a significant factor, it is only slightly more of a factor than it is for non-covid-19 viral pneumonia. In fact it's probably that people who are overweight have incipient type II diabetes, causing high glucose levels which tends to impair the immune system. Which is why it's less of a problem to be young and overweight as their glucose levels won't have got out of kilter yet.
[1] https://www.ethnicity-facts-figures.service.gov.uk/health/diet-and-exercise/overweight-adults/latest
[2] https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports
[3] https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/c31dd38d-d77b-ea11-9124-00505601089b
16 Apr 20
@deepthought saidNice work.
The corresponding figures for the UK are available below [1]. From the ICNARC document [3] available from the page [2], and the UK obesity figures I worked out relative risks for being overweight and relative risks for being admitted to ICU with covid-19 compared with non-covid-19 pneumonia by ethnicity. The results demonstrate that what is happening cannot be explained ...[text shortened]... s
[3] https://www.icnarc.org/DataServices/Attachments/Download/c31dd38d-d77b-ea11-9124-00505601089b
17 Apr 20
In the meantime I've found some new information. The prevalence of type II diabetes among non-white people is three to six times higher, for the same BMI, see p.8 of [1]. This does, to some extent, explain the ICNARC figures, without needing reference to ACE2. However, 4.3% of men compared with 3.4% of women have type II diabetes, but there are 3 men for every woman in IC for covid-19. Which means that diabetes alone does not seem to completely explain the number of people requiring intensive care treatment for covid-19.
[1] https://www.diabetes.org.uk/resources-s3/2017-11/diabetes_in_the_uk_2010.pdf
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17 Apr 20
@humy saidWell, you know... Selenium was named after the moon. The moon is bright. Bright is light-coloured. Black people aren't light-coloured. Therefore, black people don't eat enough selenium, therefore they have China-virus-caused diabeetus. Or maybe diabeetus-caused China virus, who knows which way Metal's madness goes?
How can that assertion of his possibly imply that?
The word 'black' or the equivalent wasn't mentioned there.
There is a conspiracy theory saying people do not get immunity to SARS2 after they get it. It is absurd. Next time the news media says we don't know enough about SARS2 to know if we get immunity call them out on their stupidity.
Antibodies give people immunity.
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200327/researchers-develop-covid-19-antibody-test
If there was no immunity a vaccine would be useless, yet the same corporate news media that promotes fear with this ridiculous myth is also pushing the idea of an effective vaccine. This is a contradiction.
18 Apr 20
5 edits
@metal-brain saidNot necessarily.
Antibodies give people immunity.
Just one example of a virus that stimulates the body to produce antibodies against it but for those antibodies to fail to give immunity to that virus is the HIV virus.
People with HIV often have antibodies against it but that's not enough to kill all the virus in their body and thus they still eventually die of AIDS.
P.S. Because I am not aware of any real evidence supporting the idea, I am not implying it is probable that people do not get immunity to SARS2 after they get it; only that the idea, contrary to your assertion, isn't "absurd" although I think it can still be said to be "probably not true" simply because its not true for most kinds of viruses.