A life saved from the madness

Originally posted by KellyJay
Did you see an exception about where it is okay to deny Christ in scripture?
Kelly

You're dodging the question: if you told a murdering psychopath that you "deny Christ" would it ~ for you, in your case, with your beliefs ~ mean that you actually did "deny Christ" in your heart?

Originally posted by FMF
You're dodging the question: if you told a murdering psychopath that you "deny Christ" would it ~ for you, in your case, with your beliefs ~ mean that you actually did "deny Christ" in your heart?

Yes, if I thought so little of Christ that I would to save my life I could just
deny Him, it would be for me to equal to denying him in my heart.
Kelly

Originally posted by FabianFnas
And that statement is...?

Religion kills. Medicine saves.

Clearly its not the case, infact, was it religion or medicine that killed baby Yousef Al-Kharboush ?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Religion kills. Medicine saves.

Clearly its not the case, infact, was it religion or medicine that killed baby Yousef Al-Kharboush ?

Where in the article presented in OP can we read anything about Yousef Al-Kharboush?

Why do you constantly try to go off-topic? Why do you want me to go off-topic? Don't you like my questions about the girl and how the doctors saved her despite the religious will of her parents?

Because of the doctors she survived. Her parents rather wanted her dead.

This is what the article is about. Not anything else.

So again - Religion kills, medicine saves. As a JWer, do you agree with this?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Yes, if I thought so little of Christ that I would to save my life I could just
deny Him, it would be for me to equal to denying him in my heart.
Kelly

so pretending to think something is equal to actually thinking it????? what a strange set of pedantic rules your god plays.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Where in the article presented in OP can we read anything about Yousef Al-Kharboush?

Why do you constantly try to go off-topic? Why do you want me to go off-topic? Don't you like my questions about the girl and how the doctors saved her despite the religious will of her parents?

Because of the doctors she survived. Her parents rather wanted her dead ...[text shortened]... anything else.

So again - Religion kills, medicine saves. As a JWer, do you agree with this?

so your statement is only good for a single paragraph on the Internet and can be dismissed as nonsense elsewhere, gotcha.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
so pretending to think something is equal to actually thinking it????? what a strange set of pedantic rules your god plays.

Thinking about an act is akin to doing it. If you were to read scripture you
would see Jesus talking about if we look at a woman lustfully has adultery
in his heart already. Our thought life is just as real as our actions, you hate
another and so on are all important things.
Kelly


Matthew 5:27-29
New International Version (NIV)
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Originally posted by KellyJay
No I don't think it was right to go against the parents wishes. We are
either free to live our lives as we see fit or not. We are free to avoid
sinning against God or we can forced to sin against him because the
states wants it that way. This I believe even if I disagree with the
things that people want to do or avoid, if it isn't going against God's
Word it isn't my call it is theirs.
Kelly

The girl would have died! Good grief man get some perpective.

I think you are completely wrong, your moral compass is totally bent out of shape by your misconception of biblical scripture. What's more in terms of "being completely free to make our own choices", you must be living in a dream world.

I noticed you avoided my point about the terrorist completely - and by the way, congratulations, you just made it to my "religious loon" list.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Are you aware of Vivia Perpetua? She was a young women put to death in the amphitheaters of the Romans. She became a Christian through her servant preaching to her. As was common in those days she was brought before the city magistrate profession of Christianity being a capital crime and offered the opportunity to offer up incense to an effigy of ...[text shortened]... nd I answered, 'Yes, I am.'

http://secretplaceseries.com/Support/Testimonies/V_Perpetua1.html

No comment on the OP I notice.

Originally posted by divegeester
The girl would have died! Good grief man get some perpective.

I think you are completely wrong, your moral compass is totally bent out of shape by your misconception of biblical scripture. What's more in terms of "being completely free to make our own choices", you must be living in a dream world.

I noticed you avoided my point about the terrorist completely - and by the way, congratulations, you just made it to my "religious loon" list.

Only just made it on to your 'religious loon' list? Kelly thinks humans lived with dinosaurs, it doesn't get anymore bonkers than that.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
Only just made it on to your 'religious loon' list? Kelly thinks humans lived with dinosaurs, it doesn't get anymore bonkers than that.

I hold a few strange "beliefs" myself, but the difference is that I would never allow another person to be harmed in any way for what I believe - let alone defend a JW parent's right to allow thier daughter to die through permitting them to prevent a blood transfusion - and on the basis of what - that Kelly admits that he disagrees with all JW doctrine, but would still fight for thier 'rights of freedom' and protect thier consciounce before God.

I can't believe what I'm reading - honestly. It's terrifying.

Originally posted by divegeester
The girl would have died! Good grief man get some perpective.

I think you are completely wrong, your moral compass is totally bent out of shape by your misconception of biblical scripture. What's more in terms of "being completely free to make our own choices", you must be living in a dream world.

I noticed you avoided my point about the terrorist completely - and by the way, congratulations, you just made it to my "religious loon" list.

You don't know if she would have died, don't play God.

I get you and I disagree on this, I believe we both agree getting her the
treatment that would help save her in my opinion would be the right thing
to do.

You will not get me to agree to forcing someone to sin is a good thing even
if death is involved.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
I hold a few strange "beliefs" myself, but the difference is that I would never allow another person to be harmed in any for what I believe.

Why is that? Do you not really believe what you believe, or are your beliefs less important that other people, or is one of your beliefs that your beliefs should not cause harm to others?
I actually think Kelly is being perfectly reasonable. He believes that even lying that he rejects God is wrong, and he considers it a very serious sin. It is not important where he gets this belief from, or how good his interpretation of the Bible is, it remains his belief. If you expect him to give up that belief because it may potentially lead to his death then you need to provide some argument for why self preservation is more important than beliefs. As a theist I think you will find that practically impossible to make a case for. Even as an atheist, I don't think I could make a satisfactory case.

In fact, I think this deserves its own thread.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so your statement is only good for a single paragraph on the Internet and can be dismissed as nonsense elsewhere, gotcha.

This is about this article, yes you are right.

And according to this article - religion would kill if there wouldn't be the brave doctor.

Do you agree in this?

Originally posted by twhitehead
I actually think Kelly is being perfectly reasonable.

You understand that Kelly would rather let the girl die to protect the conscience of the parents rather than they feel compromised before their God? He would do this even though he has stated that he disagrees with all JW doctrine.

Can you explain why you think this is "perfectly reasonable"?