All sins forgiven

Originally posted by sonship

And you sonship is guilty of pronouncing judgment on all people by your statement that all non Christians will be tortured in fire for all eternity.

I am responsible for believing and teaching [b]Rev. 20:15. And will have to answer to the Lord Jesus for so teaching.

[quote] And if anyone was not found written in the book of l ...[text shortened]... ly excluded from the list of the twelve tribes? Yet it appeared again after a temporary erasing.

You are hilarious.. 😀

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ knows his sheep.
Not all Christians are sheep, like Christians love to assume.
End of story.

I'm only assuming those that are born again I call Christian, I do not assume everyone
who takes the name is. I only assume that that those with Holy Spirit are Christian, I do
not assume everyone who claims the name is. I only assume those that follow God
through Jesus Christ are Christian, I do not assume anyone who does not know Him is.
I only assume any of those because of scripture, not something I hope is true because it
feels good or sounds right.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I'm only assuming those that are born again I call Christian, I do not assume everyone
who takes the name is. I only assume that that those with Holy Spirit are Christian, I do
not assume everyone who claims the name is. I only assume those that follow God
through Jesus Christ are Christian, I do not assume anyone who does not know Him is.
I only assume ...[text shortened]... those because of scripture, not something I hope is true because it
feels good or sounds right.

Christ knows all those things. I dont. Hence I have nothing to say about that issue but you keep repeating it as if you are expecting a response from me.

What I do know is that Christ and the Apostles are very clear that:
- not everyone who claims to believe will get eternal life
- not everyone with the Holy Spirit will get eternal life
- you could be born again all you want but you have to follow Christ commandments
- there are people who follow God but know of no law {Romans 2]

On that day, then all will be revealed. Personally I wait in hope of eternal life.
Whoever wants to claim and boast that they have it and not even God can take it away then God will deal with them.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Christ knows all those things. I dont. Hence I have nothing to say about that issue but you keep repeating it as if you are expecting a response from me.

What I do know is that Christ and the Apostles are very clear that:
- not everyone who claims to believe will get eternal life
- not everyone with the Holy Spirit will get eternal life
- you could ...[text shortened]... laim and boast that they have it and not even God can take it away then God will deal with them.

Which I find strange since you are all about quoting scripture when it agrees with you, but
when it doesn't you refuse to talk about it.

I agree - not everyone who claims to be a Christian will be given eternal life.
I disagree - that that those with the Holy Spirit will be rejected by God you'll have to show
me the scripture that says that!

The scripture is very clear about that do not have God's Spirit are not God's that isn't
something I think, it is clearly what the Bible says.

I agree there are those that don't know the law that will be saved, but none of them will
be saved without Jesus or God's Spirit, because it is not by works we are saved.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Which I find strange since you are all about quoting scripture when it agrees with you, but
when it doesn't you refuse to talk about it.

I agree - not everyone who claims to be a Christian will be given eternal life.
I disagree - that that those with the Holy Spirit will be rejected by God you'll have to show
me the scripture that says that!

The sc ...[text shortened]... e of them will
be saved without Jesus or God's Spirit, because it is not by works we are saved.

Who is Paul speaking to and about here?

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

Is not Peter referring to Christian believers, who are born again here as well?

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. [(2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV)

Is not Paul speaking to born again Christians here when he says "WE"?

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Hebrews 10:26 KJV)

This is why Paul warns of preemptively judging and claiming to have eternal life and then boasting about it like you Christians do.

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Paul says :
- HAVE PATIENCE
- IF YOU DO GODS WILL
- THEN YOU MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL LIFE

Originally posted by Rajk999
Who is Paul speaking to and about here?

[i]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the ...[text shortened]... :
- HAVE PATIENCE
- IF YOU DO GODS WILL
- THEN YOU MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL LIFE

"Who is Paul speaking to and about here?

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV) "


Those who were once enlighten and walked away, that choice is not a one time deal it
is a life choice removing one's self from God to follow the flesh. So they will be without
God's Spirit having rejected it, they will be reprobates.

This is your favorite passage?

Originally posted by Rajk999
Who is Paul speaking to and about here?

[i]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the ...[text shortened]... :
- HAVE PATIENCE
- IF YOU DO GODS WILL
- THEN YOU MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL LIFE

"Is not Peter referring to Christian believers, who are born again here as well?

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. [(2 Peter 2:20-21 KJV) "

Yes, these will be those that reject God, that reject Jesus, that reject God's Spirit and they
will be the saddest of all when the time comes in my opinion. It would have been better
to have never known than to know and still reject Christ.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Who is Paul speaking to and about here?

[i]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the ...[text shortened]... :
- HAVE PATIENCE
- IF YOU DO GODS WILL
- THEN YOU MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL LIFE

"Is not Paul speaking to born again Christians here when he says "WE"?

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Hebrews 10:26 KJV)

This is why Paul warns of preemptively judging and claiming to have eternal life and then boasting about it like you Christians do.

Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

Paul says :
- HAVE PATIENCE
- IF YOU DO GODS WILL
- THEN YOU MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE OF ETERNAL LIFE"

I have never denied that there are warnings in scripture that tell everyone that sin is to be
avoided. Not once have I claimed that we are free to sin without consequence, but I do
not call those that have never walked with God through Jesus Christ someone who will
be right with God on judgment day as you do by their own merits of works.

When I say that I or anyone has eternal life it is due to Jesus Christ, those that know and
follow him from the time they meet Him and serve Him will be right standing with God
under His grace and mercy through the faith He has given us. We don't just pop in and
out of God's grace, it isn't so fickle, He is our sure foundation.

When you say like you Christians do, are you denying you are apart of being a Christian?

Hebrews 10:
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Not denying that on Judgment day it is finalized, but we are sealed with God's Spirit and
we are saved with great promises of God. You seems to mix up the reality of what is to
come with where we find ourselves now.

I still don't understand how you believe those that miss Christ will be saved by their works,
when it is very clear that works isn't what saves us.

Originally posted by KellyJay
"Is not Peter referring to Christian believers, who are born again here as well?

For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the ...[text shortened]... my opinion. It would have been better
to have never known than to know and still reject Christ.

I dont have the time to discuss further .. so good luck.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Well first I dont understand what you mean by "in practical terms" to be honest. I simply quote what Christ and the Apostles say as clearly as I can... that is a practical as I get.

Next Im not into lecturing and long cut and pastes stuff. I carry on on this forum like if it is a conversation Im having with a friend over a beer. I say something and you ...[text shortened]... ay I did not answer your questions .. eventually I will walk out leave you there .. get it ? 🙂

Oh I get it. I get that you couldn't answer my spot on questions in that thread. I'll keep it for another time when maybe you do feel like engaging.

Originally posted by Rajk999
You are hilarious.. 😀

So you find it hilarious that a Christian believes Revelation 20:15 ?

I think you need to have your mind renewed.
Does this cause you to roll across the floor giggling too ?

"And do not be fashioned according to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind ... " (Rom. 12:1a)

If you're tickled that I take Revelation 20:15 seriously, as I do many other passages, maybe there's something childish in your thinking. Maybe your inability to refute the passage is met with nervous laughter as a defense mechanism.

At any rate "behold then the kindness and severity of God" (Rom. 11:22) I seriously consider.

Originally posted by sonship
So you find it hilarious that a Christian believes [b]Revelation 20:15 ?

I think you need to have your mind renewed.
Does this cause you to roll across the floor giggling too ?

"And do not be fashioned according to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of the mind ... " (Rom. 12:1a)

If you're tickled that ...[text shortened]... rate "behold then the kindness and severity of God" (Rom. 11:22) I seriously consider.[/b]

Refute this :

.. ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28-29 KJV)

Originally posted by Rajk999

Refute this :

.. ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28-29 KJV)

There is no need for me to "refute" such a fine utterance of truth.

Those who participate in a resurrection of life are ALL those who are saved. It includes those saved and rewarded. And it includes those who suffer loss yet are saved as through fire.

"If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward." [ Which is received after this first resurrection and enjoyed during the millennial kingdom time]

If anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." [ which discipline will be after the first resurrection and during the millennial kingdom."

So I take "the resurrection of life" to be that resurrection spoken of BEFORE the commencement of the 1,000 years (Revelation 20:6) [/quote]

The rest of the dead are raised after the 1,000 years -

"The rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection." (Rev. 20:6)

So you should be able to see that no such "refutation" is at all needed to interpret John 5:28-29.

Concerning verse 29 -

" This is the resurrection saved believers, which will take place before the millennium (Rev. 20:4; 6; 1 Cor. 15:23, 52; 1 Thess. 4:16). At this resurrection will be resurrected to enjoy eternal life, Hence this resurrection is called the resurrection of life. " [/b]

Now such a note does NOT make it impossible that God could discipline some who lose the reward or whose names have been temporarily erased from the book of life because BEFORE they enjoy the full eternal life, some further discipline is required.

By the time of the end of the millennium ALL the saved, those rewarded and those who lost the reward, together enjoy the secured gift of the eternal age of the new heaven and new earth.

John 5:28.29 and 1 Cor. 3:14,15 can both be believed and trusted. Our God has uttered them both.

Basically though John 5:28-29 says all come forth from the tombs, it does not say that all come forth at the same time.

Originally posted by sonship

Refute this :

.. ALL that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. (John 5:28-29 KJV)

There is no need for me to "refute" such a fine utterance of truth.

Those who participate in a re ...[text shortened]... ys all come forth from the tombs, it does not say that all come forth at the same time.

Jesus Christ is the judge and he determines who has done evil and who has done good .. not you.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Jesus Christ is the judge and he determines who has done evil and who has done good .. not you.

Since all are sinners, you think there are a few among sinners that have not done evil?