Originally posted by sonhouseWhat are you complaining about?
I heard some disturbing statistics the other day: 300 MILLION people died of TB world wide.
And the 200 million who died in WW1 and 2, So a half BILLION people dead from 1 disease and secular and religious wars. That is a pretty big chunk of the entire human population.
Yet not a peep from this alleged god, the supposed gracious loving god who would ...[text shortened]... d of god' card. A really popular card for the religious set, totally ignoring my original point.
Everyone dies, even if you and your universal views of life were all correct people die, all
of them will for one reason or another. The 300 million will still die of TB world wide, the
two wars are still going to claim millions, and on and on. Nothing about life changes when
it comes to death.
If the God of the Bible is real this fact doesn't change, but after this life all the crap that
evil produces will be done away with so there will be no cause for sadness again in God's
Kingdom. The judgment on evil and all of the fruit of it will be dealt with once and forever.
If your universal views are also correct concerning the after life nothing good or bad
happens next, then all the struggle, toils, good, and bad things that people went through
will be meaningless as nothing becomes of the good done in this life or the evil.
God letting this life play out so everyone who alive and yet to be will have a shot to come
into God's Kingdom until that time God ends it. When He does the show is over we all will
give an account of every idle word we have spoken. Those whose righteousness not as
good Jesus' will come up short and they will pay for sins they have committed.
04 Sep 16
Originally posted by sonhouserobots
Me: I really get annoyed when religious folk belittle the works of mankind, like a really great artist say, like Joni Mitchell or Yo Yo Ma, 'well they are ok, but NOTHING compared to our lord' kind of thing.
Isaac Newton? He knows NOTHING about how we got here so his work is automatically suspect. Only our LORD knows that.
Totally ignoring the fact we ...[text shortened]... in kindergarten scientifically and therefore like chiding a 5 year old for not knowing calculus.
Originally posted by sonhouseMethinks all religions are man-made, god is created by man and man is not created by god; we are the parents of god, but since we cannot afford this parental responsibility we prefer children to remain😵
Me: I really get annoyed when religious folk belittle the works of mankind, like a really great artist say, like Joni Mitchell or Yo Yo Ma, 'well they are ok, but NOTHING compared to our lord' kind of thing.
Isaac Newton? He knows NOTHING about how we got here so his work is automatically suspect. Only our LORD knows that.
Totally ignoring the fact we ...[text shortened]... in kindergarten scientifically and therefore like chiding a 5 year old for not knowing calculus.
05 Sep 16
Originally posted by black beetleSo instead of an evil god that allows and has a hand in all of this you believe man is evil
Methinks all religions are man-made, god is created by man and man is not created by god; we are the parents of god, but since we cannot afford this parental responsibility we prefer children to remain😵
and is control of it all, at least as much as man's power goes?
06 Sep 16
Originally posted by KellyJayI'd like to know how you got from him saying gods were man made, which I have said repeatedly, but now all of a sudden, putting words in his mouth, now god is evil and men are evil.
So instead of an evil god that allows and has a hand in all of this you believe man is evil
and is control of it all, at least as much as man's power goes?
What's up with that? He said nothing about 'evil' gods, he said gods were man made, and I agree fully. So how did it get from 'man made gods' to 'evil gods' and evil men?
Originally posted by sonhouseYou are going on and on about how the death of humans are evil if gods are real. I'm just
I'd like to know how you got from him saying gods were man made, which I have said repeatedly, but now all of a sudden, putting words in his mouth, now god is evil and men are evil.
What's up with that? He said nothing about 'evil' gods, he said gods were man made, and I agree fully. So how did it get from 'man made gods' to 'evil gods' and evil men?
laying out what that means if gods are not real and we look at reality in that light. Humans
still die do they not? Without gods people are the main cause of death since this is
occurring! Therefore man is really the main cause you are really complaining about once
you remove gods from the picture, our beliefs in gods doesn't change the fact people are
killing people by the millions it just removes an excuse or justification for these evil deeds.
With God being a reality that evil is still in play but only for a short time then it and all that
belong to it are done away with.
06 Sep 16
Originally posted by black beetleIf people dying and being killed is evil and that is why we call gods evil, if those things still occur without gods then doesn't that mean man is the real evil being that is causing it?
I don't understand your question KellyJay, would you please rephrase?
😵
Originally posted by KellyJayA short time? On what time scale? Geologic? TB has killed 300 MILLION but not all at once, it has taken a considerable time already. Evil men did not kill THOSE people.
You are going on and on about how the death of humans are evil if gods are real. I'm just
laying out what that means if gods are not real and we look at reality in that light. Humans
still die do they not? Without gods people are the main cause of death since this is
occurring! Therefore man is really the main cause you are really complaining about once ...[text shortened]... s still in play but only for a short time then it and all that
belong to it are done away with.
Evil men certainly killed the 200 million in century 19 and 20 wars of all kinds. Obviously some or maybe the majority were killed in battle not involving evil ones except in the upper ranks, the Mengalas, the Pol Pots, the Hitlers and so forth so the actual number of evil ones are small compared to the majority of those killed. It is the commanders, the leaders who are the evil ones, the ones at the top. So if there is some kind of god, it would have known about this evil millions of years ago or way before the preposterous 6000 years of creationist mythology. Your god is supposed to be omniscient and therefore WOULD have known all about the coming atrocities yet there was ZERO help of any kind, such as gently convincing the upper rank perps to change their ways or some such.
None of that happened. So it is safe to say, even if there IS such a god, it is strictly hands off and we are on our own no matter what and all the god worship is for naught because it could give a shyte less what happens to humans. 500 MILLION dead from just two causes, war and TB, shows that quite clearly.
Of course the believers would never believe in such a hands off god.
They would point to some kid who 'miraculously' recovers as if there was direct internvention by some deity, totally ignoring the half BILLION who already died of those two causes.
A case of blind followers literally, at least mentally blind.
06 Sep 16
Originally posted by sonhouseSince the beginning of evolutionary processes with human life either death is just part of
A short time? On what time scale? Geologic? TB has killed 300 MILLION but not all at once, it has taken a considerable time already. Evil men did not kill THOSE people.
Evil men certainly killed the 200 million in century 19 and 20 wars of all kinds. Obviously some or maybe the majority were killed in battle not involving evil ones except in the upper ra ...[text shortened]... eady died of those two causes.
A case of blind followers literally, at least mentally blind.
the process or not. If human death has always been part of the process than there is
nothing evil about one dying for any reason is there?
If there is something evil about the death of humans as when one takes another life than
something more than evolutionary processes make that so! Is it evil when a bird kills
another bird, a lion killing a lion, a fish killing a fish?
From the dawn of human evolution death and life go hand as life moves from one
stage to the next, the death of one species makes room for another nothing evil about
that is there? Why do you call anyone's death evil no matter how they died since no
matter what we are all going to die for one reason or another? Does not evolutionary
processes demand that is how life works, there is no other way!?
On top of that if there are no gods and judgment for right and wrong deeds in this life
how one lives or dies once dead is meaningless since all that awaits all life is nothing
either way. Nothing would be sacred since nothing holds value once it is gone from this
life, if what you believe is true.
If you want to put in place some "supposed to" on how some lives need to be treated
moving away from the process from the beginning of life why should anyone care what
you think? It isn't like you own the process, you are just some person crying because from
the start of people's lives some die in ways you dislike. You even have to admit they would
always die no matter what for some reason you may or may not like.
With God being real that makes good and evil have lasting effects. The things done in this
life cause things to occur with us way beyond this life time. Without God, nothing will
remain and what is done here will be meaningless beyond this life.
06 Sep 16
Originally posted by sonhouseThere is a time appointed for all of us to die and after that the judgment, so when all of our
A short time? On what time scale? Geologic? TB has killed 300 MILLION but not all at once, it has taken a considerable time already. Evil men did not kill THOSE people.
Evil men certainly killed the 200 million in century 19 and 20 wars of all kinds. Obviously some or maybe the majority were killed in battle not involving evil ones except in the upper ra ...[text shortened]... eady died of those two causes.
A case of blind followers literally, at least mentally blind.
debts are settled in judgment what was just and unjust will be made clear.
You not seeing or believing will not changes the reality of these things if God is real or if
God is not.
Originally posted by KellyJayTime APPOINTED for death? Do you realize what you are saying here? That your or some deity has everything planned out and 300 million dying of TB is just one of god's vast eternal plans like the song goes.
There is a time appointed for all of us to die and after that the judgment, so when all of our
debts are settled in judgment what was just and unjust will be made clear.
You not seeing or believing will not changes the reality of these things if God is real or if
God is not.
So this god decided the 200 million dead in wars were ok, in fact needed for another one of its vast eternal plans.
I say that is utter bullshyte.
To even SAY appointed time means you believe in such a deity where literally a good portion of the entire race of humans dying means nothing. You have a hidden number of days left and when that appointed time passes you die a possibly horrible torturous death.
You figure dying of deliberate long lasting torture is an ok way to die, no big deal because our gracious lord has some great things planned for us?
It means nothing if a man murders a hundred 8 year old shool boys in Nigeria at the hands of Boko Haram.
It means nothing in this vast eternal plan if 50 people are killed in a gay bar by a crazed gunman either.
Did you actually understand the implications of your statement?
You perhaps figure if it was YOU getting the long lasting torture leading to death, no big deal, I get rewarded in some heavenly ponzi scheme..
And multiplying that by ten million is no big deal either.
That does show your level of empathy for humans.
06 Sep 16
Originally posted by sonhouseAt first there wasn't a time appointed for us to die then Adam choose evil, you know the
Time APPOINTED for death? Do you realize what you are saying here? That your or some deity has everything planned out and 300 million dying of TB is just one of god's vast eternal plans like the song goes.
So this god decided the 200 million dead in wars were ok, in fact needed for another one of its vast eternal plans.
I say that is utter bullshyte. ...[text shortened]... ar by a crazed gunman either.
Did you actually understand the implications of your statement?
very thing we are talking about. Once he made that choice it put an end of life number to
our lives which was not there before.
I've told you over and over we are all going to die, do you think that changes with or
without God in the picture? Realizing we are all going to die a surprise to you?
The biggest complaints you have against God are people on people crimes, and yet you
want to blame God. As I pointed out to you which you have ignored over and over what
your beliefs bring to the table simply make the things you are upset about a natural part
of life, they are no more good or evil than a human birth.
Originally posted by KellyJayI don't blame your god at all since I know it is a man made god 100%. All the bible stories are just that, stories to intimidate to control. A god would never set up such a failure mode it knew in advance would happen. That is nonsense. The bible is full of such bullshyte situations that an 8 year old could see through. In fact, I was one of those 8 year olds.
At first there wasn't a time appointed for us to die then Adam choose evil, you know the
very thing we are talking about. Once he made that choice it put an end of life number to
our lives which was not there before.
I've told you over and over we are all going to die, do you think that changes with or
without God in the picture? Realizing we are all ...[text shortened]... s you are upset about a natural part
of life, they are no more good or evil than a human birth.
Stories like that being still effective in trapping people thousands of years afterwards in this era of space flight, more or less advance science (we are still in kindergarten scientifically, which is why this whole BS creationism thing still grabs people)
500 million dead yet a 3 yo gets a supposed miracalulous cure and NOW it's the hand of god going, yes, that 3 yo should live. Those 500 million who died in war and TB, screw em, that three yo is worth FAR more than the rest of that 500 million combined.
Come on, how is it the human race is STILL that gullible as to believe such nonsense?
You continually claim there is some kind of heaven with ZERO proof except of course the words in a 3000 year old fairy tale which you have gullibly been drawn into so deeply you can't even IMAGINE being free of such shackles holding down the human race to childish nature unable to reach any kind of maturity, instead, in constant state of war, religion and secular, in the distant past, in the near past, in the present, in the near future and most likely never ceasing in the far future, a thousand years from now, still fighting over who controls the old city.
I cannot and NEVER will believe that is the result of the activity of some deity.
But it makes PERFECT sense for ALL of it coming from man made gods and a lot of them, each one sincerely proclaiming only THEIR god is the real god, ALL the rest, anyone believing in THAT god is doomed to hell.
That alone screams man made gods.
I just wish there WAS a real god seeing through all this utter bullshyte going on now and set the world straight because what we have now is utter chaos and the furthest thing from real spirituality as we can get, instead just continuous war, secular and religious wars contesting just who'se god is superior.
NO god would set up such a cruel system, I've said it before and believe it even more firmly now. Of course, now I get the 'so now you know the mind of god' card pulled on me.
Tough titty, pulling that or any other religious card leaves me with deaf ears.
it is an utter laugh, humans trying to tell me how a god works.
06 Sep 16
Originally posted by sonhouseI don't have a God if I did you'd have a point.
I don't blame your god at all since I know it is a man made god 100%. All the bible stories are just that, stories to intimidate to control. A god would never set up such a failure mode it knew in advance would happen. That is nonsense. The bible is full of such bullshyte situations that an 8 year old could see through. In fact, I was one of those 8 year ol ...[text shortened]... card leaves me with deaf ears.
it is an utter laugh, humans trying to tell me how a god works.
I believe in God that is not my owning God.
Man's heart again if you take gods out of the picture would still do the things you are
crying over. Nothing would change except the excuse we use for bad behavior.
I believe that what happens in this life matters, and it matter far beyond this life.
You don't believe what happens here matters beyond this life, yet you are pissed.
I believe there is more to this life than our living and dying, and the chaos we see now has
more to do with our lusts and desires than obeying God who tells us to love each other.
With respect to who setup this cruel system, isn't most of what you are bemoaning about
are all human on human activities, that God tells us not to do?