This is the thing that really ticks me off about religions, specifically Christianity because that's where my exposure mostly is but most of the others have the same problem.
"Religion" was invented by humans to control other humans, and it certainly does that very well.
Humans are cursed with the knowledge that one day they will die and be forgotten, and some people never learn to live with that concept. So they create for themselves all these things like heaven and angels and paradise and whatever. It's the equivalent of telling a child with a cut finger that mummy's kiss will stop it hurting and make it better. I'm naive enough to assume that "religion" grew naturally out of such superstitions, but when I look at any "religion" more closely there always seems to be a power group in there somewhere. Like the One Per Cent.
To me "religion" is not about belief in a god or gods, it is about control of humans by other humans.
Belief is a personal thing, not to be shared. If I believe, that's it. "Religion" isn't necessary.
And God doesn't tell humans anything. God didn't write the bible or the torah or koran or whatever, humans did.
07 Sep 16
Originally posted by KewpieHow am I controlling anyone or am I being controlled?
This is the thing that really ticks me off about religions, specifically Christianity because that's where my exposure mostly is but most of the others have the same problem.
"Religion" was invented by humans to control other humans, and it certainly does that very well.
Humans are cursed with the knowledge that one day they will die and be forgotten, and s ...[text shortened]... tell humans anything. God didn't write the bible or the torah or koran or whatever, humans did.
Originally posted by KellyJay...by preachers, writers, churches, community leaders, relatives, neighbours, lawmakers etc. etc. who act upon the premise that there is a vengeful, wrathful, "loving" God who might withhold "immortality" from you if you are disobedient or non-compliant. You have been trying to exercise some measure of control over other people's ideas and beliefs here at RHP for years with your veiled and not-so-veiled references to your 'torturer-God' (not your term for Him, I know) and the vengeance/wrath/punishment thing, presumably you do the same in 'real' life and do so with your family and children.
How am I controlling anyone or am I being controlled?
07 Sep 16
Originally posted by KellyJayBirth, ageing, death, sorrow, lamentation, physical and mental pain, anguish, association with persons, things and conditions we dislike, separation from the persons, things and conditions we love, wishing for what we cannot get –is suffering.
If people dying and being killed is evil and that is why we call gods evil, if those things still occur without gods then doesn't that mean man is the real evil being that is causing it?
Methinks the non-existence of G-d explains the absence of G-d’s intervention. On the other hand, if we accept, for the sake of the conversation, that such a deity exists, then the so called Creator suspended between ill-will and hatred, and sloth, torpor and indifference remains;
So I neither blame G-d for the suffering, nor I believe that suffering is a subpart of G-d’s master plan. You and I conceive differently the cause of suffering, the cessation of suffering and the way leading to the cessation of suffering, that is😵
07 Sep 16
Originally posted by black beetleI believe the creation *God's creation* wasn't drawn up to have things we dislike as death,
Birth, ageing, death, sorrow, lamentation, physical and mental pain, anguish, association with persons, things and conditions we dislike, separation from the persons, things and conditions we love, wishing for what we cannot get –is suffering.
Methinks the non-existence of G-d explains the absence of G-d’s intervention. On the other hand, if we accep ...[text shortened]... ffering, the cessation of suffering and the way leading to the cessation of suffering, that is😵
sorrow, lamentation, physical and mental pain and so on yet they are here. One of the
most complex reasons is that God created a universe that was very good and put life in it
that had the capacity to do as they will in love or selfishness/sin.
As evil entered into the picture it is a bump in the road from what God is doing, it will be
clearly shown for what it is, and we are witnesses to this. On the day of God's judgment
when everything that has transpired in this universe is clearly shown without anything
being hidden, evil will be condemn as it should be along with everyone and everything
that has embraced it over love and the grace of God who could and did not receive it.
I do not believe God is hands off at all in our universe, but because we are so fixated
upon ourselves I think we miss what is in front of us and miss God. I do believe we really
do see through a glass darkly when it comes to our lives in the here and now.
Because of who and what God is, I think His hand in our lives is easy to miss. Think about
it for a moment He is everywhere in His fullness. Meaning everywhere He is He is all
knowing, powerful, and complete so from the largest bodies in space to the smallest
particle He is fully aware of it and how they all touch and relate to everything and
everyone at the same time. He holds it all the together by the power of His Word, there is
nothing anywhere that He does not see how to touch and affect anyone or thing anywhere
else in His universe. So if He wanted to act and remain hidden who could see it?
The fact that scripture tells us of a beginning and an end to this universe as we see it tells
me that He is doing something where our choices matter. He draws us, we either come or
we do not, but we will not have the luxury of telling Him we didn't know, He knows what
we know and what we do to hide things even from ourselves.
Originally posted by KellyJayI cannot verify the beliefs of your tradition with my own experience, but if it works for you kindly please feel free to enjoy it; as regards this atheist, herenow free from hatred, free from malice, safe, sound and happy remains.
I believe the creation *God's creation* wasn't drawn up to have things we dislike as death,
sorrow, lamentation, physical and mental pain and so on yet they are here. One of the
most complex reasons is that God created a universe that was very good and put life in it
that had the capacity to do as they will in love or selfishness/sin.
As evil entered ...[text shortened]... ng Him we didn't know, He knows what
we know and what we do to hide things even from ourselves.
May All Beings Be Happy😵
08 Sep 16
2 edits
Originally posted by black beetleI have a high opinion of you just so you know. I'd only say that I believe we are all flawed
I cannot verify the beliefs of your tradition with my own experience, but if it works for you kindly please feel free to enjoy it; as regards this atheist, herenow free from hatred, free from malice, safe, sound and happy remains.
May All Beings Be Happy😵
and by we I am including myself in this mix. I know my flaws better than most here and
I'd even go so far to say I more than likely am unaware of some of my flaws that some
here including you may see clearly. That said when we compare ourselves to ourselves
suggesting we are good because we better than someone else we are not wise in this.
The scale of righteousness was never created by a man or man's society that can be
used properly. Our views about what is right and wrong are always changing to suit us as
we see fit whenever we feel like changing it, or we make excuses to justify ourselves for
the bad we do acknowledge. This only goes to show we are coming up short, if we were
not there would not be a need to justify our words, actions, or lack there of, or for that
matter have an evolving standard of righteousness.
Originally posted by black beetleBeloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. (1 John 4:7-8 KJV)
I cannot verify the beliefs of your tradition with my own experience, but if it works for you kindly please feel free to enjoy it; as regards this atheist, herenow free from hatred, free from malice, safe, sound and happy remains.
May All Beings Be Happy😵
The words 'atheist' and 'Christian' are to God, meaningless manmade labels.
God determines who is who by their beliefs which come from the heart and by their actions, not by their words.
08 Sep 16
Originally posted by Rajk999KJV 1 John1: 8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. (1 John 4:7-8 KJV)
The words 'atheist' and 'Christian' are to God, meaningless manmade labels.
God determines who is who by their beliefs which come from the heart and by their actions, not by their words.
Difficult to confess your sins when you refuse to acknowledge them as well as Jesus don't
you think?
KJV 1 John2: 15-17 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
Difficult to love the Father when you deny him, difficult to love not the world when that is
all you know don't you think?
KJV 1 John 2: 22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
I'd say its difficult to suggest that someone who does not have the Son has the Father,
and those that out right deny Him are anything, but antichrist. Maybe you can share with
us how someone in the light of the scripture being very clear about those that deny Jesus
are anything other than antichrist, or do you think being an antichrist is a meaningless
thing that has nothing to do with God accepting us?
08 Sep 16
Originally posted by KellyJayJesus said how he is going to judge people and who will enter into the Kingdom of God.
KJV 1 John1: 8-10 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
Difficult to confess your sins when you refuse to acknowle ...[text shortened]... think being an antichrist is a meaningless
thing that has nothing to do with God accepting us?
Its in Matt 25.
Did you miss it?
Read it again.
Despite all your pontificating and complicated analysis, you fail to grasp the simple truth from the mouth of Christ which is :
Show love and compassion to those in need and I will welcome you into the Kingdom of God.
If you fail to do that, I will cast you into the lake of fire.
08 Sep 16
Originally posted by Rajk999I thought you said sins were all covered by Jesus?
Jesus said how he is going to judge people and who will enter into the Kingdom of God.
Its in Matt 25.
Did you miss it?
Read it again.
Despite all your pontificating and complicated analysis, you fail to grasp the simple truth from the mouth of Christ which is :
[b]Show love and compassion to those in need and I will welcome you into the Kingdom of God.
If you fail to do that, I will cast you into the lake of fire. [/b]
Originally posted by KellyJayYou cannot read.
I thought you said sins were all covered by Jesus?
Jesus died for the sins of all people. Never said all sins were covered.
If people accept Jesus Christ, at that point they are cleansed of sin and are supposed to change and live acceptably. However if they continue with sin, then there comes a point when God will say enough is enough.
Not all sins are covered.
09 Sep 16
Originally posted by Rajk999If people accept Jesus Christ, at that point they are cleansed of sin.
You cannot read.
Jesus died for the sins of all people. Never said all sins were covered.
If people accept Jesus Christ, at that point they are cleansed of sin and are supposed to change and live acceptably. However if they continue with sin, then there comes a point when God will say enough is enough.
Not all sins are covered.
So how are people who do not accept Jesus Christ cleansed of sin?
09 Sep 16
Originally posted by FetchmyjunkJesus cleansed ALL THE WORLD of sin by his death. The sin referred to is specifically the sin brought into the world by Adam. Paul says this plainly in Romans 5 - by one man sin entered the world and death followed, so by one man the free gift of righteousness came to all men:
[b]If people accept Jesus Christ, at that point they are cleansed of sin.
So how are people who do not accept Jesus Christ cleansed of sin?[/b]
Rom 5:18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.