Christians/Muslims

Originally posted by dj2becker
Yes I did. My entire direct family has left.

Did you ever provide a link to this church's website or any article about them or where they are etc?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Sorry but I cannot fit 24 years of experiences into 220 words.

But the yawning gap between what you wrote in those 220 words and the way you are now trying to re-frame the meaning of what you chose to say in them is going to strike people as sheer deception and a face-saving attempt to recoup the credibility you lost during your personal debacle on this thread yesterday.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Yes but I never questioned the rules while I was there. Very few people did.

Isn't that the very point of the threat of psychological cruelty?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Hundreds of visitors visit the place on a daily basis, to the outside world it looks like heaven on earth. Most of the people that live there are happy to follow the rules and don't receive the abuse I was referring to.

Can you provide a link so that I too can be one of the hundreds of people who visit.

Originally posted by FMF
So there were no explicit or publicly known consequences or punishments in this cult for members who disobeyed or questioned the rules?

My dad was a co-worker, one of a core group of about 200 and was privy to what happened when someone broke the rules. He told me about all the inside stuff after he left. All I would notice as a kid growing up was that someone had left, we would be told that we should have nothing to do with them because they had left God's way. I only found out what was really going on near the end of my stay, for the last 2 years I didn't live there but would go there to visit my parents.

Originally posted by divegeester
Can you provide a link so that I too can be one of the hundreds of people who visit.

http://www.ksb.org.za/

Originally posted by dj2becker
My dad was a co-worker, one of a core group of about 200 and was privy to what happened when someone broke the rules. He told me about all the inside stuff after he left. All I would notice as a kid growing up was that someone had left, we would be told that we should have nothing to do with them because they had left God's way. I only found out what was r ...[text shortened]... end of my stay, for the last 2 years I didn't live there but would go there to visit my parents.

Er... Sorry. To me, tangential waffle is a dodge. My question was this: Were there no explicit or publicly known consequences or punishments in this cult for members who disobeyed or questioned the rules?

Originally posted by FMF
Er... Sorry. To me, tangential waffle is a dodge. My question was this: Were there no explicit or publicly known consequences or punishments in this cult for members who disobeyed or questioned the rules?

It would depend on the severity of the crime and the remorse shown by the offender. The punishment would be decided by the small committee. So no one really knew if they were not part of the co-worker group. There were other smaller branches of the mission all over the country. If someone was repentant they would spend some time on one of the smaller branches but would be allowed back to the main branch in some cases if they made a public apology.

Originally posted by dj2becker
It would depend on the severity of the crime and the remorse shown by the offender. The punishment would be decided by the small committee. So no one really knew if they were not part of the co-worker group. There were other smaller branches of the mission all over the country. If someone was repentant they would spend some time on one of the smaller branches but would be allowed back to the main branch in some cases if they made a public apology.

You're still dodging the question. I am asking about the consequences for people who disobeyed or questioned the rules. Are you now claiming that all the threatened punishments detailed in your 220 words were in fact secret. So, once again: Were there no explicit or publicly known consequences or punishments in your cult for those who disobeyed or questioned the rules? Were all they all "covered up"?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Yes but I never questioned the rules while I was there. Very few people did.

not allowed to talk to the opposite sex,

not allowed to watch tv,

Women in our church were not allowed to wear trousers or jewelry, and

you weren't allowed to be romantically involved with the person you wanted to marry.

You had to marry someone from the same church.

You had to 'hear from God' who the person was that you were going to marry

you weren't even allowed to talk to them before you got married.

What were the consequences ~ the out in the open ones, not any secret ones ~ of breaking the rules above?

Originally posted by FMF
[quote]not allowed to talk to the opposite sex,

not allowed to watch tv,

Women in our church were not allowed to wear trousers or jewelry, and

you weren't allowed to be romantically involved with the person you wanted to marry.

You had to marry someone from the same church.

You had to 'hear from God' who the person was that you were going to ...[text shortened]... the consequences ~ the out in the open ones, not any secret ones ~ of breaking the rules above?

As a I said before there was a committee that decided the punishments. There were always rumors but never an explicit public statement that if you did this then this will be the punishment. It was quite obvious if a student was expelled from school it meant they must have had a romantic relationship, but still hush hush and under cover. If someone was unrepentant they would leave and something would be said in the line of them leaving God's way and we would have to shun them so obviously we wouldn't hear their side of the story.

Originally posted by dj2becker
As a I said before there was a committee that decided the punishments. There were always rumors but never an explicit public statement that if you did this then this will be the punishment. It was quite obvious if a student was expelled from school it meant they must have had a romantic relationship, but still hush hush and under cover. If someone was unre ...[text shortened]... God's way and we would have to shun them so obviously we wouldn't hear their side of the story.

So there were no explicit consequences for breaking the rules, that seems to be your latest claim.

Kind of different to the story you've been telling up to this point isn't it?

Originally posted by dj2becker
There were always rumors but never an explicit public statement that if you did this then this will be the punishment. It was quite obvious if a student was expelled from school it meant they must have had a romantic relationship, but still hush hush and under cover. If someone was unrepentant they would leave and something would be said in the line of the ...[text shortened]... God's way and we would have to shun them so obviously we wouldn't hear their side of the story.

You seem to be describing a climate of fear, rife with rumours and people unsure of where they stood.

You say you "had to shun" people, yes?

So that bit wasn't a secret then, was it?

Originally posted by FMF
So there were no explicit consequences for breaking the rules, that seems to be your latest claim.

Kind of different to the story you've been telling up to this point isn't it?

There were consequences and a core group of people knew about it but kept it under raps. The paragraph I wrote was based upon the information I got from my dad who was a part of the core group and the coroborating testimonies.

Originally posted by FMF
You seem to be describing a climate of fear, rife with rumours and people unsure of where they stood.

You say you "had to shun" people, yes?

So that bit wasn't a secret then, was it?

Everyone who followed the rules knew exactly where they stood and had nothing to fear.