Crosses, crucifixes and graven images

@suzianne said
"Says you", she said, not surprised at all.

There's a wealth of scholarly work on how brand-new Christianity consciously appropriated pagan ideas and symbols. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to.

@suzianne said
Does this mythology narrative of yours include "paganism"? Idols? "Graven images"?

If Jesus was nailed to pole or a tree, as was Roman practice at that time, but the writers of the New Testament appropriated the pagan symbol of the cross instead [for obvious reasons] then THERE is the pagan angle.

@suzianne said
You know better than this.

You are claiming I am missing "the" point, but "the" point I'm making is my own. And I am not missing it.

@fmf said
If Jesus was nailed to pole or a tree, as was Roman practice at that time, but the writers of the New Testament appropriated the pagan symbol of the cross instead [for obvious reasons] then THERE is the pagan angle.

If so, do you think it is as you say the same today or of focus and love. Also when do you think that changed. God knows us and what’s in our hearts along with that persons projected feeling’s, would he consider this a joyful sound?

@mike69 said
If so, do you think it is as you say the same today or of focus and love. Also when do you think that changed. God knows us and what’s in our hearts along with that persons projected feeling’s, would he consider this a joyful sound?

Please reframe whatever it is you are trying to ask me. Bear in mind that I do not believe in your particular God figure.

@fmf said
Please reframe whatever it is you are trying to ask me. Bear in mind that I do not believe in your particular God figure.

If your words were correct for the use of the cross in the hearts of Christian’s at that time in history(which you don’t know), do you think it is as you’re saying the same today or do you think it’s used for focus, love, and growth in the Christian faith. Also if you do think it changed when do you think that it did in Christian history. God knows our hearts (yes I believe even yours) and Christian’s hearts using these symbols along with that persons projected feeling’s and would consider them a joyful sound if for the correct reasons to him. Do you agree?

@mike69 said
If your words were correct for the use of the cross in the hearts of Christian’s at that time in history(which you don’t know), do you think it is as you’re saying the same today or do you think it’s used for focus, love, and growth in the Christian faith. Also if you do think it changed when do you think that it did in Christian history. God knows our hearts (yes I believe ev ...[text shortened]... ed feeling’s and would consider them a joyful sound if for the correct reasons to him. Do you agree?

If you're asking me if I think the cross is a meaningful symbol in the minds of worshippers of the Christian God figure, then, of course, yes I do.

-Removed-

No, it's not. Thanks for your crackpot theory, but... no.

@fmf said
There's a wealth of scholarly work on how brand-new Christianity consciously appropriated pagan ideas and symbols. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to.

The cross wasn't one of those, sorry.

@fmf said
You are claiming I am missing "the" point, but "the" point I'm making is my own. And I am not missing it.

The point you are making is non-existent. The Roman practice at the time was crucifixion, nailing people to crosses (Latin, crux), so your imagined "point" is moot.

@suzianne said
The cross wasn't one of those, sorry.

Well, as I say, there is plenty of evidence that it was. And, for the most part, the Christians I've been surrounded by all my life don't really worry care one way or the other, aside from the JWs I have known and fanatics like sonship. EDIT: and maybe you too.

-Removed-

The definition of "graven image" is "a carved idol or representation of a god used as an object of worship", so yes, it is. And no, the cross is not that.

@suzianne said
The point you are making is non-existent. The Roman practice at the time was crucifixion, nailing people to crosses (Latin, crux), so your imagined "point" is moot.

You are missing the point again, Suzianne. The point I am making is not "non-existent". The terminology that was used, whether it be in Latin or Greek or Aramaic, was chosen by the writers of the New Testament [decades after Jesus's execution for sedition] and they were, the way I see it, deliberately appropriating the pagan symbol of the cross in order to give their breakaway religion a wider resonance.