Definition of a cult

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You are the 'ego' one.

no i am the special one, ask my wife!

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I'm denying that the practice of disfellowshipping and shunning as carried out by your organisation is detailed in the Bible.

really? how vewy vewy intwesting! Perhaps you can offr an alternative understnading of these verses, complete with commentary.

Expelling :

The judicial excommunication, or disfellowshipping, of delinquents from membership and association in a community or organization. With religious societies it is a principle and a right inherent in them and is analogous to the powers of capital punishment, banishment, and exclusion from membership that are exercised by political and municipal bodies. In the congregation of God it is exercised to maintain the purity of the organization doctrinally and morally. The exercise of this power is necessary to the continued existence of the organization and particularly so the Christian congregation. The congregation must remain clean and maintain God’s favor in order to be used by him and to represent him. Otherwise, God would expel or cut off the entire congregation.—Re 2:5; 1Co 5:5, 6.

(Revelation 2:5) “‘Therefore remember from what you have fallen, and repent and do the former deeds. If you do not, I am coming to you, and I will remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent.

(1 Corinthians 5:5-7) you hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. Your [cause for] boasting is not fine. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole lump? Clear away the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, according as you are free from ferment.

thanks in advance, your fan - robbie

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
really? how vewy vewy intwesting! Perhaps you can offr an alternative understnading of these verses, complete with commentary.

Expelling :

The judicial excommunication, or disfellowshipping, of delinquents from membership and association in a community or organization. With religious societies it is a principle and a right inherent in them and ...[text shortened]... a new lump, according as you are free from ferment.

thanks in advance, your fan - robbie[/b]

Those two fragments from the bible cannot be said to justify "the practice of disfellowshipping and shunning as carried out by your organisation", which is what Proper Knob asked you about. For the nature and details of the "shunning" that happens we have the testimony of former members of the JW organisation. The question is, how do you claim the bible justifies the treatment that they have experienced at the hands of the JW organisation? Where is all that stuff explained and authorized in the bible?

Originally posted by FMF
Those two fragments from the bible cannot be said to justify "the practice of disfellowshipping and shunning [b]as carried out by your organisation", which is what Proper Knob asked you about. For the nature and details of the "shunning" that happens we have the testimony of former members of the JW organisation. The question is, how do you claim the bible j ...[text shortened]... f the JW organisation? Where is all that stuff explained and authorized in the bible?[/b]

on the contrary we use them to justify our use of the provision to remove persons who are unrepentant, now you will either offer an alternative explanation or state why they do not refer to removing persons and this is just the preliminaries, we have much to cover, this is simply to demonstrate that the provision for removing unrepentant ones can be Biblically established. Are you denying the fact? then offer an alternative rendering of the meaning of the verses. It is in vain that you appeal to the biased and distorted testimony of bitter and disgruntled people, we are discussing the premise, Biblically, do try to keep up old boy and refrain from the slight of hand that marks your posting style. Remember, he stated that our practice cannot be established Biblically.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
on the contrary we use them to justify our use of the provision to remove persons who are unrepentant, now you will either offer an alternative explanation or state why they do not refer to removing persons and this is just the preliminaries, we have much to cover, this is simply to demonstrate that the provision for removing unrepentant ones can be ...[text shortened]... rks your posting style. Remember, he stated that our practice cannot be established Biblically.

What is being referred to is - not the right of a group to expel members - but instead all the ghastly and vindictive stuff described in the testimony of ex-members. Proper Knob said "I'm denying that the practice of disfellowshipping and shunning as carried out by your organisation is detailed in the Bible." This is the nub of his question, not whether your group can expel members.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
...do try to keep up old boy and refrain from the slight of hand that marks your posting style. Remember, he stated that our practice cannot be established Biblically.

No sleight of hand going on, robbie. Proper Knob set up the goalposts with his statement. It is you who is trying to move them. Where does the bible explicitly justify all the practices - including psychological bullying - that ex-JWs have described?

Originally posted by FMF
No sleight of hand going on, robbie. Proper Knob set up the goalposts with his statement. It is you who is trying to move them. Where does the bible explicitly justify all the practices - including psychological bullying - that ex-JWs have described?

the two scriptures that i posted demonstrate that Biblically it can be established that an unrepentant person can and should be removed from the congregation, you have offered no alternative explanation to the verses nor can you, for it is evident that the statement is true. Perhaps proper knob or anyone else can do better, they could hardly do any worse that cite the testimony of disgruntled and biased ex witness in support of the premise that the practice of removal, disfellowshipping and shunning is not Biblical. Remember he stated that the practice is not Biblical, lets see if anyone else can do better.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
the two scriptures that i posted demonstrate that Biblically it can be established that an unrepentant person can and should be removed from the congregation, you have offered no alternative explanation to the verses nor can you, for it is evident that the statement is true. Perhaps proper knob or anyone else can do better, they could hardly do any ...[text shortened]... ort of the premise that the practice of removal, disfellowshipping and shunning is not Biblical.

You are trying to move Proper Knob's goalposts. How do those two bible fragments explicitly justify practices such as psychological bullying that ex-members have described in their testimony? That a group can expel members is not at issue.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
[Proper Knob] stated that the practice is not Biblical, lets see if anyone else can do better.

Proper Knob stated that the practice "as carried out by your organisation" is not detailed in the Bible. The way it's carried out by your organisation is described by ex-members. You have to address the despicable practices that they have experienced at the hands of your organisation. That is the issue here, and not whether a group can expel people.

Originally posted by FMF
You are trying to move Proper Knob's goalposts. How do those two bible fragments explicitly justify practices such as psychological bullying that ex-members have described in their testimony?

he did not mention anything to do with bullying or psychology, you did, now if you are not going to discuss the practice Biblically please refrain from posting as your assertions and the testimony upon which it is based are irrelevant. Will you please address whether or not we have the right as an organisation to remove persons who are unrepentant, yes or no? If you are going to once again spoil the discussion with irrelevancies i will simply ignore your text, you have the choice to address the issue at hand whether disfellowshipping , removal and shunning is Biblical or it is not. The choice is yours.

Originally posted by FMF
Proper Knob stated that the practice "as carried out by your organisation" is not detailed in the Bible. The way it's carried out by your organisation is described by ex-members. You have to address the despicable practices that they have experienced at the hands of your organisation. That is the issue here, and not whether a group can expel people.

no here are his words again,

the practice of disfellowshipping and shunning as carried out by your organisation is detailed in the Bible.

He did not mention psychological bullying or anything of the sort, you did, nor did he state that it should be based upon biased and disgruntled testimony of ex witness, he stated, Biblically, You will not wreck another discussion with your inability to follow a simple premise.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
he did not mention anything to do with bullying or psychology...

That is what is being discussed here, robbie, try as you may to pretend it's not.

Originally posted by FMF
That is what is being discussed here, robbie, try as you may to pretend it's not.

goodbye FMF, you had your chance.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
really? how vewy vewy intwesting! Perhaps you can offr an alternative understnading of these verses, complete with commentary.

Expelling :

The judicial excommunication, or disfellowshipping, of delinquents from membership and association in a community or organization. With religious societies it is a principle and a right inherent in them and ...[text shortened]... a new lump, according as you are free from ferment.

thanks in advance, your fan - robbie[/b]

Your reference:
(1 Corinthians 5:5-7) you hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, in order that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. Your [cause for] boasting is not fine. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole lump? Clear away the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, according as you are free from ferment.

This is what Paul was referring to:

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife!
(1 Corinthians 5:1 NKJV)

It was this man that Paul said to turn over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, rather than them boasting of how forgiving they were.

You on the other hand boast of how unforgiving you are against a fellow member that expresses his doubt concerning any man-made JW doctrine.


Why did you leave that part out?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
no here are his words again,

the practice of [b]disfellowshipping and shunning as carried out by your organisation is detailed in the Bible.

He did not mention psychological bullying or anything of the sort....[/b]

You are pretending to not understand what is being discussed here.

Proper Knob: "the practice of disfellowshipping and shunning as carried out by your organisation is [not] detailed in the Bible."

The context of Proper Knob's statement is the discussion that we have all been involved in, not some context you are claiming there is in which the "practice" of you organization - as described by people who were members - is ignored or which you are pretending was not under discussion.

That a group can expel people is not at issue.