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19 Mar 21
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
You mean you have not read from page one to the end of any book or message of this man? Is that the superficial "research" you have done, only referring to second hand opinions?
You're really superficial. The needy one is you I think.
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19 Mar 21
@sonship saidNot really. Easier to find things off site:
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Quote Witness Lee on that and give the sourced reference so I can examine it.
Since you are salivating to portray me as only a tape recorder of Witness Lee, quote Witness Lee on that. But you must give us the source.
"Needle in a haystack" again ?
'We all have to be clear that today we are God-men. Others should be able to sense that we are men plus something else. They may not be able to pin down what we are, but they can sense that we have something more. Eventually, when we speak something concerning Christ, they all will realize that what we have as something more is Christ Himself, that is, God. This is the testimony of a God-man.'
Living Stream Ministry. (Does not provide its own source).
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19 Mar 21
@sonship saidDo you or do you not believe in the deification of man?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
You mean you have not read from page one to the end of any book or message of this man? Is that the superficial "research" you have done, only referring to second hand opinions?
You're really superficial. The needy one is you I think.
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19 Mar 21
1 edit
@sonship
'Ultimately, the church is a group of people who are in union with the Triune God and are mingled with the Triune God. The Triune God and the church are four-in-one. Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the “four-in-one God.” These four are the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and the Body.'
'…In this way the believers become the reproduction, expansion, and physical continuation of the incarnate and incorporate Son of God and indeed the organism of the Triune God Himself.'
Witness Lee, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing p.203-204
20 Mar 21
@sonship saidWait, you are being dishonest. I have not said you "...have no Christian life beside arguing here on this Forum". You are making this up.
That I have no Christian life beside arguing here on this Forum is a slander you have no ground to be assured of.
20 Mar 21
@ghost-of-a-duke said“The four in one”
@sonship
'Ultimately, the church is a group of people who are in union with the Triune God and are mingled with the Triune God. The Triune God and the church are four-in-one. Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the “four-in-one God.” These four are the Father, the Son, the Spirit, an ...[text shortened]... ganism of the Triune God Himself.'
Witness Lee, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing p.203-204
Well, well, well.
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20 Mar 21
@sonship saidCome on sonship. I gave you what you requested:
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
Quote Witness Lee on that and give the sourced reference so I can examine it.
Since you are salivating to portray me as only a tape recorder of Witness Lee, quote Witness Lee on that. But you must give us the source.
"Needle in a haystack" again ?
'Ultimately, the church is a group of people who are in union with the Triune God and are mingled with the Triune God. The Triune God and the church are four-in-one. Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the “four-in-one God.” These four are the Father, the Son, the Spirit, and the Body.'
'…In this way the believers become the reproduction, expansion, and physical continuation of the incarnate and incorporate Son of God and indeed the organism of the Triune God Himself.'
Witness Lee, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing p.203-204
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20 Mar 21
@ghost-of-a-duke saidSonship?
Come on sonship. I gave you what you requested:
'Ultimately, the church is a group of people who are in union with the Triune God and are mingled with the Triune God. The Triune God and the church are four-in-one. Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the “four-in-one God.” These four ...[text shortened]... ganism of the Triune God Himself.'
Witness Lee, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing p.203-204
How is a four-in-one God not a deification of man? How is Witless Lee not saying man will not become part of the Godhead?.... Sonship?
You asked for an example with a source. I provided it.....Sonship?
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20 Mar 21
2 edits
Not really. Easier to find things off site:
The search engine at www.ministrybooks.org is a good way to find phrases and keywords.
I have been away from this thread. Last time I recall discussing numerology charges. No matter. This new subject can get some attention.
'We all have to be clear that today we are God-men. Others should be able to sense that we are men plus something else. They may not be able to pin down what we are, but they can sense that we have something more. Eventually, when we speak something concerning Christ, they all will realize that what we have as something more is Christ Himself, that is, God. This is the testimony of a God-man.'
Nothing wrong here.
Christians are God-men.
If you don't like the term "God-men" the same thing is meant by the NT term "man of God".
You spoke well of A. W. Tozer previously.
"A.W. Tozer ministered until his death in May 1963. His body rests in Akron, OH, under and epitath that simply reads:"
"A.W. TOZER - A MAN OF GOD"
Jesus was God incarnate. And Jesus said He was a grain of wheat to fall into the ground and die and bear much fruit. This means He would reproduce others like Himself.
"Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it abides alone; but if it dies it bears much fruit." (John 12:24)
This gives us ground to say that Jesus the "God-man" died not only to redeem us with His atoning blood but to reproduce in some measure what He is in those redeemed. He multiplies "God-men".
When Philokalia shows up again, ask him what Greek Orthodoxy teaches about "theosis". That is the Greek Orthodox equivalent of "deification". They taught "theosis" long before Witness Lee was born. Let Philokalia correct me of I err.
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20 Mar 21
Here are statements of expert witnesses concerning the deceptive and misrepresentative publication critical of Witness Lee entitled "The God-Men"
by Neil T. Duddy.
https://contendingforthefaith.org/en/category/defense/the-god-men/experts/
This is important to see how the use of "God-men" by critics have not been accurate representations of Lee's ministry.
Living Stream Ministry. (Does not provide its own source).
I doubt your truthfulness on this.
I said by using the Search Engine at www.ministrybooks.org you could have no problem looking up the phrase "God-men" wherever in over 400 messages and online books by Witness Lee it may have occurred.
Before I do your homework for you it is appropriate to refer to the Christian church as composed of God-men.
Paul said the church has its destination to be "the dwelling place of God in spirit" (Eph. 2:22) That makes this "dwelling place" of a living temple of human beings the dwelling place of the living God. Why not refer to them as God-men?
Paul says the man of God [God-man if you will] must learn how to conduct himself in the church of the living God. That church is the house of God and the pillar and base of the truth.
" . . . that you [Timothy] might know how one ought to conduct himself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and base of the truth.." (1 Tim. 1:15)
The "house" is not of wood, bricks, stones, but a house of redeemed, regenerated, sanctified and transformed human beings. Not only so do they become the house of the living God because they are living BY God. This entity of God-men is also "the pillar and base of the truth".
It is central to being the supporting stand and upholding truth in the universe of the purpose of God and the true nature of saved men.
"Godliness" is also another way of saying God-man or God-men.
"And confessedly, great is the mystery of godliness:
He who was manifested in the flesh" (v.16a)
That is God wants to manifest Himself in human flesh.
Jesus Christ was the God-man, and He died and rose to produce God-men. That is men participating in "godliness".
I could write all day on this. But this is enough for this post.
I am in the middle of a conference of the churches and must budget my time carefully.
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1 edit
'Ultimately, the church is a group of people who are in union with the Triune God and are mingled with the Triune God. The Triune God and the church are four-in-one. Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the “four-in-one God.” These four ...[text shortened]... ganism of the Triune God Himself.'
Witness Lee, A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing p.203-204
I look forward to studying this fine book as I get the time.
Here is the Table of Contents of the whole book Ghost gives a cursory quote to.
A Deeper Study of the Divine Dispensing
CONTENTS
Part One: The Divine Dispensing of the Divine Trinity and Its Results
The Accomplishment of the Divine Dispensing of the Divine Trinity
The Believers’ Enjoyment and Application of the Divine Dispensing of the Divine Trinity and Its Results
Part Two: The Divine Dispensing of the Divine Trinity in the Believers’ Spirit, Soul, and Body and Its Results and Goal
The Processed Triune God Consummated to Become the Law of the Spirit of Life
A Supplementary Word (1)
The Operation and the Dispensing of the Law of the Spirit of Life in the Three Parts of the Believers
The Results of the Dispensing of the Divine Trinity as the Law of the Spirit of Life in the Believers (1)
The Results of the Dispensing of the Divine Trinity as the Law of the Spirit of Life in the Believers (2)
A Supplementary Word (2)
The Goal of the Dispensing of the Divine Trinity in the Believers
Part Three: The Divine Dispensing of the All-inclusive Christ and Its Functions
The Divine Dispensing of the All-inclusive Christ in Supplying and Sustaining the Believers
The Divine Dispensing of the All-inclusive Christ in Feeding, Watering, and Transforming the Believers
The Divine Dispensing of the All-inclusive Christ Becoming the Factor for the Growth and the Building Up of the Church
Part Four: The Divine Dispensing of the Divine Trinity and the Producing and Building Up of the Church
The Divine Dispensing of the Divine Trinity Producing the Church as the Body of Christ
The Divine Dispensing of the Divine Trinity Causing the Believers to Become God’s Masterpiece, the New Man, God’s Kingdom for His Administration, God’s House for the Dispensing of His Love, and God’s Dwelling Place for His Rest
The Divine Dispensing of God’s Plan in His Economy and of the Apostle’s Stewardship Ministering the Riches of Christ to the Believers and Bringing In the Church for the Manifestation of God’s Multifarious Wisdom
The Divine Dispensing of the All-inclusive Christ in His Making His Home in the Believers’ Hearts— Supplying to the Saints the Fullness of the Triune God That the Church May Become the Full Expression of the Triune God
The Divine Dispensing of the Divine Trinity Constituting the Gifts for the Perfecting of the Saints unto the Building Up of the Organic Body of Christ
https://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?id=18A28D06
Don't even think about Ghost having carefully read even one chapter through let alone the whole book.
I'll be back.
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20 Mar 21
@sonship saidYes, yes, come back and tell us how a four-in-one God is not a deification of man?
[quote] 'Ultimately, the church is a group of people who are in union with the Triune God and are mingled with the Triune God. The Triune God and the church are four-in-one. Because the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are all one with the Body of Christ, we may say that the Triune God is now the “four-in-one God.” These four ganism of the Triune God Himself.'
Witness Lee, ...[text shortened]... Ghost having carefully read even one chapter through let alone the whole book.
I'll be back.
How long do you need? When can we expect you back?
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20 Mar 21
@sonship saidNo, you were avoiding this thread after you sent me away to find a needle in a haystack and I returned with the needle.
I have been away from this thread.
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20 Mar 21
5 edits
you were avoiding this thread . . .
Yada yada yada
Stop daydreaming.
Stop imagining I am "running" from some same old rehashed debunked criticisms I first heard forty three years ago! "The Godmen" by Niel Duddy came out around 1978.
Ya not scary dude.
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20 Mar 21
@sonship
Lee described a four-in-one God, where man muscles his way into the Trinity. Do you agree with this non-biblical babble?