Faith is supernatural

@kellyjay said
Our faith is what we trust; its fidelity, reality, and what we believe don't change
whatever we trust in. Putting our faith in anything doesn't change; the world
around us will remain as it is, no matter what we think about it; I believe we agree.

To be mistaken about something important foundational to everything else we
doesn't change that truth; it could, however, be very detrimental to our perception
of the world.

You and I can only speculate about the "something important foundational to everything else" that you are referring to.

@fmf said
You and I can only speculate about the "something important foundational to everything else" that you are referring to.

You and I can speculate about anything in the universe, nothing unique there. We
look at what we see and compare it to what we think is true when we speculate.

It is no different than what I have been saying with scripture, and we compare what is
real and true against the evidence. Does it all fit perfectly? If it doesn't, we must
look for the root cause that breaks what we think with what we know.

@kellyjay said
You and I can speculate about anything in the universe, nothing unique there. We
look at what we see and compare it to what we think is true when we speculate.

It is no different than what I have been saying with scripture, and we compare what is
real and true against the evidence. Does it all fit perfectly? If it doesn't, we must
look for the root cause that breaks what we think with what we know.

If "scripture" makes you think "everything fits perfectly', then good for you. That's faith. And it's a blend of conjecture and aspiration. Thinking and believing this stuff is the result of a cognitive process and not a supernatural one.

@fmf said
If "scripture" makes you think "everything fits perfectly', then good for you. That's faith. And it's a blend of conjecture and aspiration. Thinking and believing this stuff is the result of a cognitive process and not a supernatural one.

Absolutely everything we think we know is just that; even science is this is what we
think we know now until something comes along and makes us change our minds.
Do you think anything in the material world is any different that we have to look at
various pieces of evidence and come to conclusions differently? Slapping a label
on topics as supernatural is just a label; if the evidence leads to something out of the
normal material world answers, then that is where it goes.

@fmf said
If "scripture" makes you think "everything fits perfectly', then good for you. That's faith. And it's a blend of conjecture and aspiration. Thinking and believing this stuff is the result of a cognitive process and not a supernatural one.

If all that is going on is a blend of conjecture and aspiration, then God isn't real, so
none of God's promises are valid, but if God is real and honors His promises, all of
our conjectures our cognitive processes are not enough to find Him or discover
Him, because we cannot cause God to do anything by our will, by our desires, or
how good we are. God calls us; we answer Him or not, and we can say we believe in
Him, do things in Jesus' name, but if our hearts are far from Him, and in the end, we
will go through life, never knowing Him.

@kellyjay said
If all that is going on is a blend of conjecture and aspiration, then God isn't real, so
none of God's promises are valid, but if God is real and honors His promises, all of
our conjectures our cognitive processes are not enough to find Him or discover
Him, because we cannot cause God to do anything by our will, by our desires, or
how good we are. God calls us; we answer ...[text shortened]... me, but if our hearts are far from Him, and in the end, we
will go through life, never knowing Him.

Both of us can only speculate about whether your particular God figure is real. You think He is; I don't. So, you are perfectly entitled to your subjective opinions that "God's promises are valid" and all there rest of the religious stuff you posted.

@kellyjay said
Do you think anything in the material world is any different that we have to look at
various pieces of evidence and come to conclusions differently?

All we are doing here is sharing our contrasting subjective opinions about all this stuff.

@kellyjay said
Slapping a label
on topics as supernatural is just a label; if the evidence leads to something out of the
normal material world answers, then that is where it goes.

"Slapping a label on topics as supernatural is just a label"

As is your slapping of the labels "absolute truth" and "objective fact" onto the articles of your faith pertaining to things which are, by their very definition, sporting the "supernatural" label.

@kellyjay said
Everyone has faith; we are creatures of faith; we don't all put it in the same places
and depending on where we are putting it, everything will change around us.

Hey “scripture man”…
There’s no scripture to support that assertion by you. TUT TUT
Practice what you preach old chap. If that was me making assertions which weren’t based on scripture, you’d be calling me all sorts of names like a “tare” and accusing me of “twisting scripture”.


PS the one in Romans was addressed to believers, in case you were thinking of pulling it up.

@kellyjay said
Everyone has faith; we are creatures of faith; we don't all put it in the same places
and depending on where we are putting it, everything will change around us.

I agree. Even the assumption that we will wake up the next morning is an example of faith.

@fmf said
Both of us can only speculate about whether your particular God figure is real. You think He is; I don't. So, you are perfectly entitled to your subjective opinions that "God's promises are valid" and all there rest of the religious stuff you posted.

Not true; I'm telling you we can experience God in our lives, not as a mental
acknowledgment of something supernatural but as an abiding life of God in us. If all
you ever do is speculate, that is all you ever do.

@divegeester said
Hey “scripture man”…
There’s no scripture to support that assertion by you. TUT TUT
Practice what you preach old chap. If that was me making assertions which weren’t based on scripture, you’d be calling me all sorts of names like a “tare” and accusing me of “twisting scripture”.


PS the one in Romans was addressed to believers, in case you were thinking of pulling it up.

What are you talking about now?

@fmf said
"Slapping a label on topics as supernatural is just a label"

As is your slapping of the labels "absolute truth" and "objective fact" onto the articles of your faith pertaining to things which are, by their very definition, sporting the "supernatural" label.

Unless you can tell the difference between something with and without a
supernatural beginning, what is the difference?

@kellyjay said
Unless you can tell the difference between something with and without a
supernatural beginning, what is the difference?

I'm not sure what you are getting at. Neither of us know what the origin of the universe is. The fact that you promote your belief in a "supernatural beginning" does not alter this, nor does it place any onus on me to pretend that we DO know or to offer a hypothesis that competes with yours.

@kellyjay said
Unless you can tell the difference between something with and without a
supernatural beginning, what is the difference?

What's more of interest to me is that, from your beliefs about a "supernatural beginning", you extrapolate doctrines about things like your own mortality and eternal torture for people who don't share your beliefs.