05 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidWhen you "tell" the difference between a description of an actual event and a metaphor, it's just your opinion, regardless of which "Jr. high reading class" you attended, right?
telling the difference between a description of an actual event and a metaphor if you think that would help.
05 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidThanks for telling me this generic stuff about your notion of "sin". But I'd still like a point blank answer to my questions:
There are crimes that even we put people aways for life and end those lives, there are crimes where once done specific words are now attached to that person such as murder, rapest. The types of things we do can also define us if we are found to be liars, thieves, hate mongers, prejudice, but the word that sums it all up would be sinner, which is someone who lives their lives ...[text shortened]... t we have done; once you murder someone your whole life after that, even here, that is what you are.
How long is each disbelieving human's life?
It's a finite period of time, is it not?
05 Jan 22
@divegeester saidYeah, sure, it is all literal unless it's a metaphor that pretty much gives you more of an answer than I got from you. John goes through a vision, and God shows Him things, things are said and pointed out to Him, things are described to Him, questions and answers are given, events occur if there were parts of that were not true but used to convey an actual event through metaphoric means even those things were done to push a point, none of that would cause that book to be less than, but the fact that God gave Him that vision shows its importance, the whole thing.
I’m well aware that you don’t like “my views” and they differ from “your views”, but I didn’t ask you to explain that. Did I?
What I asked you was, what differences you had in how you formulated your decisions on what is and what isn’t literal in the book of Revelation from how I have decided what is and what isn’t literal. Unfortunately, and as usual, you are avoiding ...[text shortened]... ide what is, or what isn’t literal in the book of Revelation? Are you going to answer that question?
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@pb1022 saidSo people burn alive for eternity for maybe crimes?
So a man, let’s call him John, abuses a young boy and then dies. Does the effect of John’s crime die with him? Or does it live on in the boy, let’s call him Joe, who may abuse others as a result of the abuse he received from John?
What maybe crimes have occurred due to your actions?
05 Jan 22
@divegeester saidThis is normal for you, leave the topic and discuss the person.
KellyJay seems to be incapable of explaining the process of how his beliefs about the literal nature of the book of Revelation are formed, and how his process differs from how I form my beliefs.
I have already said that my beliefs are my opinions on what the text means within the wider context of my understanding of the wider biblical scripture.
KellyJay is of cou ...[text shortened]... X and therefore I believe Y, and because my interpretation of X is infallible, therefore Y is fact”
05 Jan 22
@fmf saidIf we are all eligible for God's grace for each sin paid for by Jesus Christ, yes, it is all forgiven when God calls us, and we answer. If it were any other way, who could stand?
John can get eternal life if he sincerely "accepts Jesus as his personal saviour" on his deathbed, despite abusing children, according to your belief right?
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05 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidSo forgiveness, access to mercy and escape from the most incredibly horrendous torture imaginable, is due to a persons decision to believe a “call from god”? Or is it due to the sovereignty of God and not of our own effort?
If we are all eligible for God's grace for each sin paid for by Jesus Christ, yes, it is all forgiven when God calls us, and we answer. If it were any other way, who could stand?
05 Jan 22
@fmf saidI thought he was doing a good job; some crimes, some sins, effects go through time from generation to generation; they don't stop when they are done. They keep on causing harm, more hate, and more long-lasting effects, even in this temporary universe. The next one is eternal, someone who is willing and even defined by these types of actions given the ability to do those types of things you'd like to see as an eternal being who could throughout eternity cause this type of havoc?
KellyJay, I am still interested in talking to you about this. Another poster has written some stuff but it sounds far-fetched and convoluted and it doesn't address the moral issue at all. So, feel free to tackle what I have asked you.
05 Jan 22
@divegeester saidI have been speaking about context from the start, what we see in it, and you have been announcing it is all about reconciling things you don't like; the text itself isn't necessary; it is your views about how God should behave.
We are what we post. Your posting indicates your thought processes which is what I’m referring to.
If you want to dodge my thought through post with this counter-measure deflection then that’s your prerogative.
05 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidThis is merely an assertion.
You commit a crime against an eternal God; that crime is eternal, not temporary.
A "sin" is an eternal crime because a "sin" is an eternal crime.
Simply making assertions of this kind does not tackle the moral incoherence of what you are claiming.
You are basically saying '...a crime against an eternal God is eternal because a crime against an eternal God is eternal.
Why not pile up more "evidence" of this kind by declaring that ...what I am saying is morally true because it is morally true?
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05 Jan 22
@kellyjay saidI’m am not attracted a version of god who deliberately planned to burn alive billions of people for simply not believing he exists.
I have been speaking about context from the start, what we see in it, and you have been announcing it is all about reconciling things you don't like; the text itself isn't necessary; it is your views about how God should behave.
You telling me about your spiritual feelings about your understanding of god and relating to me your personal interpretations of ancient text does nothing to change my mind.