Hovering between lies and delusional thinking

@moonbus said
You have an underdeveloped notion of truth. Truths of mathematics are quite different to empirical or religious truths. Some truths are analytic, other truths are synthetic. Conflating them leads to nonsense or vacuous claims such as "if it is true, it is true." As "analytic" and "synthetic" are technical terms in logic, I suggest you not venture into deep waters until you learn to swim.

KellyJay wants to share his personal opinions and beliefs about "truth", "lies", science", "religion", the meaning of "absolute" and "subjective" and "objective" and so on. But if you engage him on these personal opinions, he claims people are simply making it personal!

@fmf said
KellyJay wants to share his personal opinions and beliefs about "truth", "lies", science", "religion", the meaning of "absolute" and "subjective" and "objective" and so on. But if you engage him on these personal opinions, he claims people are simply making it personal!

When they talk about me and not the topic is a clue, it happens; if I started talking about you by name, would that be me making it personal? If I start talking to you about you, is that making it personal?

@kellyjay said
if I started talking about you by name, would that be me making it personal?

No, it would be absolutely fine.

@kellyjay said
If I start talking to you about you, is that making it personal?

It'd be fine. We'd be sharing personal beliefs, perspectives, observations, and opinions, right? No, that's fine. It's the life blood of a forum like this.

@moonbus said
Good example of the point I've been trying to make to KJ, who continues to conflate falsehoods with lies. When Trump says the election was stolen, he is telling a truth -- someone did try to steal the election -- but he tells it in a way calculated to deceive people into thinking it was someone other than himself who tried to steal it.

Take home lesson: a truth can be a li ...[text shortened]... d be shocked to learn that it was once illegal in many states of the USA. So much for eternal truth!

I disagree; I think Trump was lying to people. It was his followers who believed the lie and were deluded by him.

@fmf said
KellyJay wants to share his personal opinions and beliefs about "truth", "lies", science", "religion", the meaning of "absolute" and "subjective" and "objective" and so on. But if you engage him on these personal opinions, he claims people are simply making it personal!

It’s a tactic, an attempt to prevent people from challenging him head on.

His reply to my comment, that Trump lies were an example of people being deluded, “wasn’t worth arguing about” is another attempt to close down debate.

@fmf said
No, it would be absolutely fine.

I am not asking you if it is okay with you but if it occurred is it personal if I make you the subject of my post?

@divegeester said
I disagree; I think Trump was lying to people. It was his followers who believed the lie and were deluded by him.

So you say, it’s what you believe.

@kellyjay said
I am not asking you if it is okay with you but if it occurred is it personal if I make you the subject of my post?

No. You can make it the subject of my post if you want. The label "personal" is moot. Just about everything everyone posts here is "personal" in so far as it is an unsolicited or solicited personal opinion or a personal opinion in response to someone else's personal opinion. Nearly everyone here uses personal anecdotes and draws upon personal experience. The very DNA of the Spiritual Forum is personal accounts and personal beliefs. You apparently want to fashion "personal" into a synonym for "illegitimate". I'm not impressed.

@kellyjay said
So you say, it’s what you believe.

The evidence is with me.

Are you one of the deluded ones who believed Trump’s lies?

@fmf said
No. You can make it the subject of my post if you want. The label "personal" is moot. Just about everything everyone posts here is "personal" in so far as it is an unsolicited or solicited personal opinion or a personal opinion in response to someone else's personal opinion. Nearly everyone here uses personal anecdotes and draws upon personal experience. The very DNA of the Spiri ...[text shortened]... efs. You apparently want to fashion "personal" into a synonym for "illegitimate". I'm not impressed.

If you believe it is meaningless why say it?

@divegeester said
It’s a tactic, an attempt to prevent people from challenging him head on.

His reply to my comment, that Trump lies were an example of people being deluded, “wasn’t worth arguing about” is another attempt to close down debate.

Me talking about you or anyone else versus the topic is always a distraction and when someone says I am only saying something because so is that. It adds nothing to the topic.

@kellyjay said
If you believe it is meaningless why say it?

Where did I say "I believe it is meaningless"? And what does "it" refer to?

@fmf said
Where did I say "I believe it is meaningless"? And what does "it" refer to?

How much of the last few posts were about me, something I wanted or was doing?

@kellyjay said
How much of the last few posts were about me, something I wanted or was doing?

I've trying to get you to talk about truth, lies and delusion but you seem to have assumed a foetal position.