Hovering between lies and delusional thinking

@fmf said
I've trying to get you to talk about truth, lies and delusion but you seem to have assumed a foetal position.

Talk about them making about why I am saying what I do doesn’t add to anything to that discussion.

@kellyjay said
Me talking about you or anyone else versus the topic is always a distraction and when someone says I am only saying something because so is that. It adds nothing to the topic.

Your reply to my comment that Trump’s lies about the election were an example of people being deluded, in your words … “wasn’t worth arguing about” …is attempt to close down debate about an OP related item which you don’t wish to discuss.

@kellyjay said
Talk about them making about why I am saying what I do doesn’t add to anything to that discussion.

Your refusal to engage in the discussion doesn’t add to anything to the discussion. Truth, lies, delusion. What do YOU have to say about what YOU believe?

@fmf said
Your refusal to engage in the discussion doesn’t add to anything to the discussion. Truth, lies, delusion. What do YOU have to say about what YOU believe?

I've been here for more than a few years. Do you have any doubt about what I believe? Ask a specific question that you are willing to answer yourself.

@kellyjay said
Ask a specific question that you are willing to answer yourself.

OK, then. Here you go. Can you give an example of the kind of "truth" you have in mind for this discussion ~ and an example of the kind of "lie" you have in mind, too?

@fmf said
OK, then. Here you go. Can you give an example of the kind of "truth" you have in mind for this discussion ~ and an example of the kind of "lie" you have in mind, too?

For example, I like Richard Dawkin's quote about how biology looks designed but isn't it only an illusion? It's not a direct quote, but you get the gist. From that, the truth if you believe him is that anyone who doesn't think its design is isn't walking around looking at life without a designer in the truth, and those who think the reason we see a design in appearance are delusional. If he is wrong, the shoe is on the other foot.

Your thoughts on this and reasoning, please.

@kellyjay said
For example, I like Richard Dawkin's quote about how biology looks designed but isn't it only an illusion? It's not a direct quote, but you get the gist. From that, the truth if you believe him is that anyone who doesn't think its design is isn't walking around looking at life without a designer in the truth, and those who think the reason we see a design in appearance are delusional. If he is wrong, the shoe is on the other foot.

Is this your answer to the question you asked me to ask you?

@kellyjay said
Your thoughts on this and reasoning, please.

For example, I like Richard Dawkin's quote about how biology looks designed but isn't it only an illusion? It's not a direct quote, but you get the gist.

It's an interesting idea but I don't consider it to be a "truth". Nor do I see his perspective as being a "lie".

From that, the truth if you believe him is that anyone who doesn't think its design is isn't walking around looking at life without a designer in the truth, and those who think the reason we see a design in appearance are delusional.

I don't think the quest for theological answers is "delusional".

If he is wrong, the shoe is on the other foot.

I don't see how it matters much whether he is "right" or "wrong". Perhaps it matters to you because it contradicts the theology you subscribe to.

@kellyjay said
I like Richard Dawkin's quote about how biology looks designed but isn't it only an illusion.

Do you think Dawkin's opinion - that there is no design but only the appearance of design - is a "lie"?

@fmf said
Is this your answer to the question you asked me to ask you?

The universe is what it is, reality; we are either looking at it as it is or not; if we are rightly discerning it, that is true; if we make it into something we want, we are delusional. It is an answer to the question you asked.

@fmf said
For example, I like Richard Dawkin's quote about how biology looks designed but isn't it only an illusion? It's not a direct quote, but you get the gist.

It's an interesting idea but I don't consider it to be a "truth". Nor do I see his perspective as being a "lie".

[b]From that, the truth if you believe him is that anyone who doesn't think its design is isn't walki ...[text shortened]... "right" or "wrong". Perhaps it matters to you because it contradicts the theology you subscribe to.

I told you early on that objective and subject truth they are just jargon describing how we look at things; the truth is the only thing that matters. It is no different from science and theology; these are just studies, but again, it doesn't matter how we arrive at or miss the truth; it only matters that we get it. If we don't, we set ourselves up to walk around looking at things thinking they mean one thing, not realizing how we are viewing them is wrong.

@kellyjay said
I told you early on that objective and subject truth they are just jargon describing how we look at things.

No, you are mistaken. You are only saying "they are just jargon", I think, because you don't know what "objective" means and you do not like being told that your beliefs about supernatural causality are "subjective".

@kellyjay said
I told you early on that objective and subject truth they are just jargon describing how we look at things; the truth is the only thing that matters. It is no different from science and theology; these are just studies, but again, it doesn't matter how we arrive at or miss the truth; it only matters that we get it. If we don't, we set ourselves up to walk around looking at things thinking they mean one thing, not realizing how we are viewing them is wrong.

The term "the truth" in the text above that you have typed refers to your theistic beliefs, right?

@fmf said
No, you are mistaken. You are only saying "they are just jargon", I think, because you don't know what "objective" means and you do not like being told that your beliefs about supernatural causality are "subjective".

If you are not accurately calling truth, truth doesn't matter if you add objective or subjective to it or your views come to it from science or theology.

@kellyjay said
If you are not accurately calling truth, truth doesn't matter if you add objective or subjective to it or your views come to it from science or theology.

Everything you say about your personal belief in supernatural causality is subjective and not objective. You are speculating about "the truth".