"How can a God of love send anybody to Hell?"

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't think you grasp sin, I'm assuming by your line of questions that you
think most people are not that bad? The standard of right and wrong is not
with us completely though we will play a part in it, but with God. So how
bad is okay and how good is good enough that God must accept a sinner?
It isn't up to us, it isn't our kingdom, we didn't create ...[text shortened]... what I'm going to do with it, it is His kingdom and
He will act as He sees fit, not us.
Kelly

Why do you, Grampy Bobby and Joseph insist on explaining to me how god is sovereign, he is righteous, it's his Kingdom so he can do what he likes? I'm not talking about God being king or righteous or whatever, I'm talking about you and Joseph and Grampy Booby and indeed checkbaiter, and what you all believe about your version of the Christian god. I'm asking you how you can follow a god who will create a place of eternal torture and then will sit and watch as the condemned and burned for all eternity? Please don't keep telling my god can do what he likes when includes torturing people for eternity because they reject him.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I don't think you grasp sin, I'm assuming by your line of questions that you
think most people are not that bad?
Kelly

Most people are not generally bad people. Some people do very bad things. Can you name one thing (or an accumulation of things) you have done in your life that you feel warrants you being cast into an incinerator for all eternity and tortured while your god watches?

Originally posted by KellyJay
God didn't create Hell for us, but many will end up there.
I'm sure God will see the suffering, I'm not sure about us.
Kelly

Matthew 25:
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you g ...[text shortened]... .’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Being cast into an "everlasting fire" does mean that one will be burned for eternity. The fire is everlasting, not the suffering.

Originally posted by FMF
I believed that I did, yes. Just as you believe you have Him in your life.

Not questioning what you believed, I'm questioning the reality of your life.
You reject now what you believed, so what you once claim you now reject
as true. That said, since you reject it, that casts that whole portion of your
life in a state of falsehood, you believed something that was not true. We
know this, because you now reject what you once believed. Since you reject
what you once believed, than when you believed it really didn't have any
reality to it, it was false.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
How do you know he wasn't saved and is just backslidden now?

Ask him, why ask me?
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
Being cast into an "everlasting fire" does mean that one will be burned for eternity. The fire is everlasting, not the suffering.

Well, I hope your right, I don't think you are, but it would be nice.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
Most people are not generally bad people. Some people do very bad things. Can you name one thing (or an accumulation of things) you have done in your life that you feel warrants you being cast into an incinerator for all eternity and tortured while your god watches?

Listen the goodness of God and God's wrath are to very powerful things!
The grace and mercy come not at all mixed with any condemnation He frees
us of all our guilt, so His wrath is just as pure. There will be no mercy at all
mixed in with God's punishment! So every little sin and ever large one will
be dealt with without any mercy and paid in full.

You want to go on and on about how unjust God is for this, do so, it is up
to you. He is going to deal with sin as He sees fit not as you or I do.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
Why do you, Grampy Bobby and Joseph insist on explaining to me how god is sovereign, he is righteous, it's his Kingdom so he can do what he likes? I'm not talking about God being king or righteous or whatever, I'm talking about you and Joseph and Grampy Booby and indeed checkbaiter, and what you all believe about your version of the Christian god. I'm as ...[text shortened]... my god can do what he likes when includes torturing people for eternity because they reject him.

He created Hell for the devil and those that follow him, our problem is we
joined the devil and are now followers of him. Our nature is so polluted that
you cannot even see how bad. Dwell on this, even our very thoughts when
we think of doing bad things even if we justify ourselves in doing them are
all sins of hate, we just wrap them up as a pretty just thing.

To even call someone a fool is enough to put you in danger of hell, think of
what dwelling about harming another sets you up for! What would a good
God think of anyone who wants to harm another, even if they don't, their
heart is there, and I imagine it can go there very quickly. Do we with hold
good things from others, do we always look down on others, do we judge?

The righteousness of God isn't like ours, where we accept the best of us by
saying they are not as bad as these others. The judgment of truth and
righteousness in a totally pure light will show us for what we really are, and
I don't think we are even close to being good as you seem to think.
Kelly

Originally posted by divegeester
What difference will either of those aspects make?

It may give a clue as to why he was drawn away from the Christian faith so easily.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Since you reject what you once believed, than when you believed it really didn't have any reality to it, it was false.

It was real to me at that time just as it is real to you at this time.

How am I a liar, according to you?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Listen the goodness of God and God's wrath are to very powerful things!
The grace and mercy come not at all mixed with any condemnation He frees
us of all our guilt, so His wrath is just as pure. There will be no mercy at all
mixed in with God's punishment! So every little sin and ever large one will
be dealt with without any mercy and paid in full.

...[text shortened]... do so, it is up
to you. He is going to deal with sin as He sees fit not as you or I do.
Kelly

Why do you keep telling me about what God can and can't do, I'm not interested in that as I keep pointing out to you and Grampy bobby.

What I'm interested in is how you can respect and worship a god that you believe will arrange and watch the eternal torture of billions of people? How do you possibly reconcile that in your heart and mind?

Originally posted by KellyJay
He created Hell for the devil and those that follow him, our problem is we
joined the devil and are now followers of him. Our nature is so polluted that
you cannot even see how bad. Dwell on this, even our very thoughts when
we think of doing bad things even if we justify ourselves in doing them are
all sins of hate, we just wrap them up as a pretty jus ...[text shortened]... t we really are, and
I don't think we are even close to being good as you seem to think.
Kelly

Please stop explaining the spiritual landscape which provides you with the backdrop to your extreme beliefs about your version of the Christian god. I'm not interested in your interpretation of scripture as it is obviously based on your preprogrammed dogma from your pastor who has told you this stuff.

Can you explain how "calling someone a fool" will put them in danger of god burning them for all eternity in an incinerator while he watches?

How can you rationalise this in your mind?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well, I hope your right, I don't think you are, but it would be nice.
Kelly

But don't you see what's happened here...

You have read the same scripture I read and your filter has interpreted it as supporting your preprogrammed belief that the souls put in the fire will burn forever, whereas I just read that there was a fire that was everlasting. You dismiss this with this cheesy flippant comment which is sort of saying " yes I see what you mean but I'm not changing me preprogrammed belief".

Horrendous as it is.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Ask him, why ask me?
Kelly

Because you are the one contending with him. I'm just pointing out there there may be another option that you have not considered, but once again you just dismiss my point with another flippant comment.

Originally posted by FMF
It was real to me at that time just as it is real to you at this time.

How am I a liar, according to you?

If you read what I've been writing you'd see why. I don't think you want to
grasp it! The truth, is either Jesus Christ is part of your life and God through
Him or not. If you claim it was real, but later deny the whole thing, then it
really was NEVER real, it was just a made up thing! If it were real you'd
never deny it!

Since you want to claim both, God was real through Jesus, and now God is
not through Jesus those two stances cannot be true at the same time! You
cannot buy into one without rejecting the other! As soon as you do you've
made the claim that the one you've rejected was NEVER real even though
you thought it was.

Since being a Christian is having Jesus Christ in your life, and you now claim
that is false, the time you made the claim wasn't real by your own admission.

You've denied Him, and still you go on and on as if you are something
above now, because you've seen the light, and according to you denying
Jesus is the light, the truth, the way. So as I have said over and over to
you, you never really knew Him, to make the claim you did and deny Him
now only shows that to be so. You are now making two untrue claims now,
which I believe you are by denying Jesus Christ, and when you said you
knew him you were faking it since you left it for the ability to deny Him.

If you don't think you've lied, okay by me, no need to drag this on. Just
go on and make whatever claims about your life and Jesus Christ as you
see fit. The truth will take care of itself, if I'm wrong don't worry about it,
if you are, well!
Kelly