Jesus Lied . For The Bible Tells Me So .

@caissad4 said
Jesus said that there were people who would be alive when he returned . The people he was referring to were those who were listening to him as he spoke those words . Either he was a liar or there are some 2000 year old people still around .

I don’t have any issue with apparent contradictions in the bible; often there are translation anomalies and the book itself is human written and human complied.

When you were a Christian did you have issues with these apparent contradictions, or are they something you have discovered since?

@divegeester said
Let’s get the scripture up so we can see what we’re talking about:

For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.
Matthew 16: 27/28
NIV

One has to read the Gospel of Thomas to understand the meaning here. Of course, the Nicean Bishops didn't want people to read that gospel, but that is another story.

The meaning is/was: those who understand the teaching (to love God, love oneself, and love's fellow men) will already, in this life, here and now, enter the Kingdom of God, which is spread out upon the Earth though few see it. It does not refer to a putative bodily resurrection of endless duration. It refers to people living sub specie aeternitatis, in the mindset of the timeless present, for whom death holds no terror.

@divegeester said
I don’t have any issue with apparent contradictions in the bible; often there are translation anomalies and the book itself is human written and human complied.

When you were a Christian did you have issues with these apparent contradictions, or are they something you have discovered since?

Those who have issue with these contradictions are bible worshippers who believe that the bible is perfect, and that is must be in order for it to be true. For me there are enough truths of the important kind for me to put faith in it.

@moonbus said
One has to read the Gospel of Thomas to understand the meaning here. Of course, the Nicean Bishops didn't want people to read that gospel, but that is another story.

The meaning is/was: those who understand the teaching (to love God, love oneself, and love's fellow men) will already, in this life, here and now, enter the Kingdom of God, which is spread out upon the Earth t ...[text shortened]... sub specie aeternitatis[/i], in the mindset of the timeless present, for whom death holds no terror.

This is an important interpretation of that passage, and one which is also supported by Christ who likened the Kingdom of God as leaven which spreads slowly, or as a mustard seed which starts small and spreads into a big tree. The funny thing is that there are contradictory passages which suggest that the Kingdom of God comes suddenly on people and catch them unawares. Here is another one:

... The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. (Luke 17:20-21 KJV)

@kellyjay said
Hit and run, I've read it.

Then it is pretty obvious Jesus lied about going to the gathering. (Probably to protect his followers).

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Then it is pretty obvious Jesus lied about going to the gathering. (Probably to protect his followers).

There is nothing in Jesus’ documented character to indicate that he would lie, especially about something relatively innocuous such as attending a gathering, but there is a lot he said against lying.

Didn’t you say yesterday that you found yourself to be a happier person by trusting people?

@moonbus said
One has to read the Gospel of Thomas to understand the meaning here. Of course, the Nicean Bishops didn't want people to read that gospel, but that is another story.

The meaning is/was: those who understand the teaching (to love God, love oneself, and love's fellow men) will already, in this life, here and now, enter the Kingdom of God, which is spread out upon the Earth t ...[text shortened]... sub specie aeternitatis[/i], in the mindset of the timeless present, for whom death holds no terror.

I like this.

There are Christians who look forward to a new life while not fully appreciating the here and now. These people don't follow the commandment to love one's neighbor because they figure they'll save that for where it will make more sense (to them). They talk about eternity as if they are guaranteed a spot, while not fully understanding that depends on how they treat people now.

@suzianne said
I like this.

There are Christians who look forward to a new life while not fully appreciating the here and now. These people don't follow the commandment to love one's neighbor because they figure they'll save that for where it will make more sense (to them). They talk about eternity as if they are guaranteed a spot, while not fully understanding that depends on how they treat people now.

It is clear from your postings that you do not understand what Jesus's commandment is about. Jesus explained it clearly by stating who it is that will inherit eternal life:

And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (Matthew 25:33-36 KJV)

It is not about supporting and encouraging homosexuality and other blatant sins. You go to great lengths to twist what Jesus said. eg using the woman caught in adultery as proof that you cannot condemn adultery. But you ignore statement ... go and sin no more. You are a compulsive bible twister. Women like you are the reason Paul told women to shut up, especially in the churches. Women are too emotional and too driven by feelings and other transient criteria. Science has proven that men are far more logical and rational, ususlly unaffected by petty feelings and emotions. So take Pauls advice ... keep quiet, and Jesus's advice .. go and sin no more and stop encouraging others to do it.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Then it is pretty obvious Jesus lied about going to the gathering. (Probably to protect his followers).

He was lead by the Spirit and didn’t go with them but did later, not sure how much time would have had to pass before you to be happy.

@divegeester said
There is nothing in Jesus’ documented character to indicate that he would lie, especially about something relatively innocuous such as attending a gathering, but there is a lot he said against lying.

Didn’t you say yesterday that you found yourself to be a happier person by trusting people?

I am referring directly to the text that says clearly he told his followers he wasn't going to the festival, but then went later in secret.

This is a well discussed passage, as to whether or not Jesus was telling a lie. Perhaps it teaches that a lie, said to protect others (his followers) is not a sin.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I am referring directly to the text that says clearly he told his followers he wasn't going to the festival, but then went later in secret.

This is a well discussed passage, as to whether or not Jesus was telling a lie. Perhaps it teaches that a lie, said to protect others (his followers) is not a sin.

I think people who know the bible are aware of this. It is only green Christians that apply hard and fast, unbudging rules. Jesus even said once, giving a parable to show that it could be permissible to cheat so that you can get people in high places to help you when the tribulation comes. Personally not something I would reccomend as it can be abused. There is even the case of allowed incest between Lot and his daughters done to carry on the bloodline.

@rajk999 said
I think people who know the bible are aware of this. It is only green Christians that apply hard and fast, unbudging rules. Jesus even said once, giving a parable to show that it could be permissible to cheat so that you can get people in high places to help you when the tribulation comes. Personally not something I would reccomend as it can be abused. There is even the case of allowed incest between Lot and his daughters done to carry on the bloodline.

Jesus overturning the tables in the temple would also not have been a peaceful act. No doubt violent consequences followed. (When televised onlookers and money lenders always appear to look on in awe, but in reality they would not have taken kindly to his actions). How exactly did he drive them out of the temple?

@caissad4 said
Jesus said that there were people who would be alive when he returned . The people he was referring to were those who were listening to him as he spoke those words . Either he was a liar or there are some 2000 year old people still around .

Even God lied by proxy.

'And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.' Ezekiel 14:9

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Even God lied by proxy.

'And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.' Ezekiel 14:9

Good one. Never came across that.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
Jesus overturning the tables in the temple would also not have been a peaceful act. No doubt violent consequences followed. (When televised onlookers and money lenders always appear to look on in awe, but in reality they would not have taken kindly to his actions). How exactly did he drive them out of the temple?

Angels were always with Christ. They could not touch him unless it was the appointed time.