Matthew 24

So we have Christ saying two men will be working in the field. One is taken in rapture and one is left. What is the difference ?

The difference is in their moment by moment living. It is not in a doctrinal matter, or a matter of being nominally or culturally or casually being identified as Christians. It is their moment by moment living.

Two woman are grinding at a mill. One will be taken in rapture and one will be left. In the taking care of their daily legitimate responsibilities there must be a difference in their heart. One is living in the presence of Christ.

The Lord was wise. In a parallel passage in Luke it says two men will be asleep on a bed. One is taken and one is left. Why ?

Apparently, even in SLEEPING, the Lord Jesus looks for the lover of Him to be in His presence. Some degree of self control in the Holy Spirit must even effect his thought life while he is sleeping.

Working in the field, grinding at a mill, and sleeping on a bed, Christ will come suddenly some day and make a statement to the rest of the world -

ie. "With these Christians I am pleased. They are already in my presence. I only need to remove them to be physically where they already are spiritually. This is normal Christian living. These are not above the standard. These are simply AT the intended standard. They have only done what they were commanded to do and nothing more. They will be rewarded before the whole world."

This will be a shock to many in the world. And this will be a huge wake up call to myriads of Christians left to pass through the curriculum of the great tribulation. I want to be watching and ready for the Lord Jesus sudden snatching away in rapture.

Originally posted by sonship
Here is the connection between [b]John 6 and Matthew 24.

1.) Jesus exhorts that men take Him in and LIVE because of Him as He lived by the Father.

" As the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so he also who eats Me, he shall live because of Me." (John 6:57)

2.) In the end times Jesus gains ...[text shortened]... s to live by Him also will be left.

They will be dealt with latter not lost eternally.[/b]

Originally posted by checkbaiter

I seem to remember a good teaching on this that claimed the ones "taken" are taken to "judgment". I'll have to look for it and get back to this.

Originally posted by sonship

I seem to remember a good teaching on this that claimed the ones "taken" are taken to "judgment". I'll have to look for it and get back to this.

I am familiar with the view. I'll tell you what the argument is. The one taken is taken to JUDGMENT. This is assuming that [b]"took all away" in verse 39, referring to those who dr ...[text shortened]... judgment.


I have further reasons for counting this interpretation as not too trustworthy.[/b]

“one is taken, and one is left.” This verse describes the harsh reality of what happens when Jesus Christ comes down from heaven and sets up his kingdom on earth—some people will be allowed into the Messianic Kingdom on earth and some will be destroyed in the flames of Gehenna. Jesus describes this event in different terms about 50 verses later in his explanation of what is known as “The Sheep and Goat Judgment” (Matt. 25:31-46). The people who are “taken” are the goats, and they are taken away to Gehenna. The ones who are “left” are the sheep, and they are allowed to enter the Messianic Kingdom, the “Kingdom of Heaven.” It helps to understand this section of Scripture if we keep in mind that Matthew 24:3-25:46 is all an answer to the question Jesus was asked in Matthew 24:3.

The Apostles knew some general facts about the end of the Age. For example, they knew about the Tribulation period from the many references to it in the Old Testament (Isa. 13:9-13; 24:1-6; Dan. 12:1; Amos 5:18-20; cp. Matt. 24:21). They also knew that the Tribulation would be followed by Jesus setting up his kingdom on earth (cp. Dan. 2:44; 7:13, 14; Ezek. 40-48), and that the Messiah’s kingdom would be inhabited by resurrected believers (Ezek. 37:11-14; Dan. 12:2; cp. John 5:25-29). Of course, there were things the Apostles did not understand; such as that the Messiah would have to die, be resurrected from the dead, and then ascend into heaven for a time before setting up his kingdom on earth.

The Apostles were anxious for the Kingdom to come, so in Matthew 24:3 they asked Jesus about the coming of his kingdom. Matthew 24-25 are Jesus’ answer to their question. In the first part of Matthew 24 Jesus describes some events of the Great Tribulation, which occurs after the Rapture of the Christian Church and precedes his coming from heaven (Rev. 19:11ff). Matthew 24:30 begins to describe Jesus coming to earth and gathering the elect, who are the ones who will be allowed into the Kingdom. Jesus described the Judgment that will follow his arrival on earth in a way they could all understand it: the Flood of Noah. In the Flood, evil people were “taken” away, while Noah and his family were “left” on earth and repopulated the earth.

After comparing the Judgment to Noah’s Flood, Jesus tells the disciples to watch and be ready, and tells the “Parable of the Ten Virgins” (Matt. 25:1-13) about staying ready in order to be able to enter the Kingdom, and he also tells the “Parable of the Talents” about getting into the Kingdom and being rewarded by the Master (Matt. 25:14-30). Then Jesus returns to his teaching about the events of the Tribulation and Judgment. In Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus tells about how, when he comes to earth, he will gather everyone who is left alive after the Great Tribulation “all the nations”. He will have them brought before his throne and he will judge them, dividing the people into two categories: the “sheep” (righteous) and the “goats” (unrighteous). Jesus will let the sheep into his kingdom and they will live on the earth. In contrast, the “goats” will be taken away to destruction. Although it was never stated in the Old Testament or Gospels, we learn from the Book of Revelation, that the first part of Jesus’ Kingdom on earth lasts 1000 years (Rev. 20:2-5).

It is sometimes wrongly taught by Christians that Matthew 24:37-41 is about the Rapture of the Church. But these verses in Matthew 24 cannot be wrested from their context, which is Jesus Christ’s Second Coming, when he comes in judgment to the earth (cp. Rev. 19:11-20:4). Matthew 24:30 says the nations will see the Messiah as he comes in power and glory, and that they will “mourn.” Then Matthew 25:31-33 speaks of the coming of the Messiah and notes that Christ will “sit on his throne” and “all the nations will be gathered before him.” These things are not associated with the Rapture of the Christian Church. At the Rapture, the Church meets the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4:17). He never comes all the way to the earth. Those left on earth will be confused about the disappearance of the Christians. They will not know where the Christians went. Furthermore, at the Rapture the nations do not see Christ nor do they “mourn.” So the context shows that Matthew 24 and Luke 17 are speaking of the Second Coming of Christ to the earth to Israel when he fights at Armageddon, judges the people, and sets up his Kingdom.

The meaning of “one is taken, and one is left” is made clear by the words themselves, the context, and the scope of Scripture. The time of Christ’s coming in judgment will be similar to the time of the judgment in the days of Noah when the flood came and “took” people away. Note that Matthew 24:39 specifically says that the flood “took” the unrighteous, while the righteous—Noah and his family—were “left.” That is historically correct. The flood took all the unrighteous people away and left Noah and his family alive on earth. So too in Matthew, the ones who are “taken” are taken for judgment and then “taken” off the earth and sent to the “fire prepared for the Devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41 NIV). Being “taken” is not a blessing. At the Sheep and Goat Judgment, the unrighteous are taken to punishment in the flames (Matt. 25:41, 46), while the righteous are left on the earth and inherit the Kingdom.

Originally posted by chaney3
As I recall, you Rak do NOT believe in the Trinity. Others do.

Don't you think at least knowing who Jesus really is would be a great bit of info to have.....before you start worshiping?

And if it's such clear knowledge, then why do sonship and others not share your same belief?

Originally posted by checkbaiter
I found the teaching I was referring to.... Because of length I will only post in part....
Let me know what you think, I don't spend a lot of time on this topic, so am not sharp on it...

“one is taken, and one is left.” This verse describes the harsh reality of what happens when Jesus Christ comes down from heaven and sets up his kingdom on ea ...[text shortened]... att. 25:41, 46), while the righteous are left on the earth and inherit the Kingdom.

REV

“one is taken, and one is left.” This verse describes the harsh reality of what happens when Jesus Christ comes down from heaven and sets up his kingdom on earth—some people will be allowed into the Messianic Kingdom on earth and some will be destroyed in the flames of Gehenna. Jesus describes this event in different terms about 50 verses later in his explanation of what is known as “The Sheep and Goat Judgment” (Matt. 25:31-46). The people who are “taken” are the goats, and they are taken away to Gehenna. The ones who are “left” are the sheep, and they are allowed to enter the Messianic Kingdom, the “Kingdom of Heaven.” It helps to understand this section of Scripture if we keep in mind that Matthew 24:3-25:46 is all an answer to the question Jesus was asked in Matthew 24:3.

"There will be two women grinding together; the one is taken but the other will be left.

Two men will be in the first; one is taken and the other will be left.

And they answered and said to Him, Where Lord? And He said to them, Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered together." (Luke 17:35-37)

Originally posted by sonship
Because the article is long and because you are not too keen on its details, my labor on a reply will not be really long.

[quote] “one is taken, and one is left.” This verse describes the harsh reality of what happens when Jesus Christ comes down from heaven and sets up his kingdom on earth—some people will be allowed into the Messianic Kingdom on earth a ...[text shortened]... sus says they will be taken to where the vultures gather together around the body or the corpse.

The meaning of “one is taken, and one is left” is made clear by the words themselves, the context, and the scope of Scripture. The time of Christ’s coming in judgment will be similar to the time of the judgment in the days of Noah when the flood came and “took” people away. Note that Matthew 24:39 specifically says that the flood “took” the unrighteous, while the righteous—Noah and his family—were “left.” That is historically correct. The flood took all the unrighteous people away and left Noah and his family alive on earth. So too in Matthew, the ones who are “taken” are taken for judgment and then “taken” off the earth and sent to the “fire prepared for the Devil and his angels” (Matt. 25:41 NIV). Being “taken” is not a blessing. At the Sheep and Goat Judgment, the unrighteous are taken to punishment in the flames (Matt. 25:41, 46), while the righteous are left on the earth and inherit the Kingdom. Spiros Zodhiates writes:

In Matt. 24:40-41; Luke 17:34-35, paralambano in the passive form is used as the opposite of aphiemi, “to let be.” In these verses, those who are taken are not to be misconstrued as those whom the Lord favors, as if they were the same saints spoken of in 1 Thess. 4:17 who will be raptured harpazō, “to seize, catch away, as if by force” to meet the Lord in the clouds. The verb paralambano in most cases indicates a demonstration in favor of the one taken, but not always. In Matt. 4:5, 8, it is used of Satan “taking” Jesus up to tempt him. In John 19:16 it is used of “taking” Jesus to lead him to the cross. It is used to refer to those in the days of Noah who were taken away, not being favored but being punished, while Noah and his family were “left” intact. Therefore, in this passage in Matthew and the parallel passage in Luke, paralambano must not be equated to the believers who are to be raptured at the coming of the Lord for his saints. It refers rather to those who, as in the days of Noah, are taken to destruction. The others are left alone (aphiemi) for the purpose of entering into the blessings of Christ’s kingdom (identified by some as the Millennium) and the righteous rule of Christ upon earth” (The Complete Word Study Dictionary New Testament; entry on paralambano p. 1108).

Robert Mounce writes:

“The man working in the field (Matt. 24:40) and the woman grinding meal (Matt. 24:41) will be taken away in judgment (not to safety; cf. parallel in Matt. 24:39 with those “taken away” by the flood)” (New International Biblical Commentary: Matthew p. 229).

Another clear way we know that Matthew 24:37-41 is not about the Rapture is by comparing it to its parallel Scripture in Luke 17:26-27. As in Matthew 24, in Luke 17 Jesus was asked when the Kingdom would come (Luke 17:20). Luke 17 gives a much shorter answer than Matthew 24, and includes different information, but it speaks of Noah’s Flood, and says when the Flood came, it “destroyed them all” (Luke 17:27). Luke also then compared the coming of the Son of Man to the days of Lot, when fire fell on Sodom and Gomorrah and “destroyed them all.” This parallel teaching is positive proof that Jesus was not teaching about the Rapture, because in the Rapture Christians will be taken from the earth while the unrighteous who are left on earth to experience the Tribulation. The unbelievers will not be destroyed at the Rapture, but will continue their lives.

People sometimes doubt that there will be the “Rapture” because Jesus did not mention it in this teaching about the end times. Jesus did not teach about it because it is part of “Sacred Secret,” of the Administration of God’s Grace (see commentary on Ephesians 3:2). The Rapture is not found in the Old Testament or the Gospels but is part of the revelation of the Church Epistles. The revelation that is addressed specifically to the Christian Church is written in the seven epistles (letters) of Paul to the Church, known theologically as the “Church Epistles.” The fact that these seven epistles (Romans through Thessalonians) are especially important to the Christian Church is not often taught, yet it is of vital importance. Israel will not be Raptured, but will be resurrected and then return to the land of Israel (Ezek. 37:11-14).

One last thing to cover is the objection of those Christians who say that the scholars quoted above are wrong and that “take” refers to those who are taken for a blessing in the Rapture while “left” refers to those who are left for judgment. Even though this interpretation ignores the context, there is another, more important point that needs to be made. The context of Matthew and Luke are crystal clear about the circumstances of Christ’s coming, such as the nations mourning and being gathered to the Judgment, and this is plainly his Second Coming and not the Rapture. Therefore, no matter which group is blessed and which group is judged, neither group is Raptured. One is blessed and left on earth to enter the Kingdom (Matt. 25:34) while the other is judged and taken away (Matt. 25:41).

"There will be two women grinding together; the one is taken but the other will be left.

Two men will be in the first; one is taken and the other will be left.

And they answered and said to Him, Where Lord? And He said to them, Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered together." (Luke 17:35-37)

" These [Antichrist and his armies] will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings;

and they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faitfhul, will also overcome them" (Rev. 17:14)

" Where Lord? And He said to them, Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered together." (See Luke 17:37)

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Well, like I said, that was part of the commentary. Now I will have to post the rest...
[quote]The meaning of “one is taken, and one is left” is made clear by the words themselves, the context, and the scope of Scripture. The time of Christ’s coming in judgment will be similar to the time of the judgment in the days of Noah when the flood came and “took ...[text shortened]... ...I think you will be in agreement..
http://www.revisedenglishversion.com/Matthew/chapter24/40

"And I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying, to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, Come here; gather yourselves to the great dinner of God.

That you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of generals and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free and slave and small and great." (Rev. 19:17-18)

Originally posted by checkbaiter

The Rapture is not found in the Old Testament or the Gospels but is part of the revelation of the Church Epistles.

"And Enoch lived sixty-five years and begot Methuselah.

And Enoch walked with God after he had begotten Methuselah [meaning - when he dies it will come] three hundred years, and he begot more sons and daughters.

And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty-five years. And Enoch walked with God, and he was not, for God took him." (Gen. 5:21-24)

Originally posted by sonship

The Rapture is not found in the Old Testament or the Gospels but is part of the revelation of the Church Epistles.

The life of [b]Enoch is a OT picture of rapture.

The godly man Enoch walked with God. And he did so for 300 years because he knew that judgment was coming to the earth.

His reaction was to walk with God. ...[text shortened]... t. God took Enoch before the judgement. He disappeared from the earth and was not found.[/b]

Originally posted by checkbaiter

I disagree with your conclusion. Enoch was not "raptured nor taken to "heaven", even though it makes a nice story.

Enoch was simply moved to another place on earth so that he would not see death.

This could mean God moved him to prevent him from being killed or some calamity.

Some erroneously jump to the conclusion that Enoch was taken up into heaven,

Originally posted by checkbaiter

On the other hand, we should observe that Enoch died young for his time—at age 365

Rapture is commonly viewed as to be in the air with the Lord or in heaven.
Nevertheless these are just possibilities, not scripture etched in stone.

The concept of a remnant of vigilant and watching Christians being taken and rewarded to accompany Christ in His reigning is not only in Luke 17:34-37. It is seen also in Revelation 2:26,27.

'And he who overcomes and he who keeps My works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations;

And he will shepherd them with an iron rod, as vessels of pottery are broken in pieces, as I also have received from My Father." (Rev. 2:26,27)