25 May 14
Originally posted by Rajk999I know that's what you believe.
He that endures to the end shall be saved.
Thats the kind of saved Im talking about.
The kind of salvation I'm talking about is a present possession. I have eternal life right now. I don't have to "endure to the end" to have it.
The salvation you believe in is from that body of doctrine designed for those under the law. You are misapplying the Word.
25 May 14
2 edits
Originally posted by josephwWell this is the purpose of this thread. Some people here ~ claiming to be informed by the "Word of God" ~ have assured me that, for being an "unbeliever"...
You say you are an ex-Christian. Fine. Say so. I don't care. That's not what I was talking about. It's not about what you or I say constitutes what a Christian is, or whether one was or is or used to be or whatever. It about what God says.
[1] I will burn in tortuous fires for eternity
...while others [professing to be adherents to the same religion and also claiming to be equally informed by the "Word of God"] have assured me that, despite being an "unbeliever"...
[2] I am "saved" and that there is nothing I can do to "undo" my "salvation" on account of the fact that I believed in Christ "for a moment in time".
So,let's see. I am an "unbeliever". That seems to be agreed upon. So I am... [1] going to burn in hell, or I am...[2] going to be saved. One of the Christians talking to me about this stuff has even asserted that BOTH [1] and [2] will happen to me [doing so at different times and in different conversations, making-it-up-as-one-goes-along style].
The contradiction ~ and therefore the incoherence ~ is almost exquisite.
25 May 14
Originally posted by FMFIf one has unrepentant sin, I'm not sure it matters either way. This includes sin that you're not "recognizing" as such, such as "original" sin.
Well this is the purpose of this thread. Some people here ~ claiming to be informed by the "Word of God" ~ have assured me that, for being an "unbeliever"...
[1] I will burn in tortuous fires for eternity
...while others [professing to be adherents to the same religion and also claiming to be equally informed by the "Word of God"] have assured me that, des ...[text shortened]... e-goes-along style].
The contradiction ~ and therefore the incoherence ~ is almost exquisite.
Even Christians have to be repentant if they sin. This is exactly where many of them fail.
25 May 14
Originally posted by SuzianneSome RHP Christians are very difficult to pin down on "sin" and who exactly pays for it and what it is they pay and who is punished and who is not punished.
If one has unrepentant sin, I'm not sure it matters either way. This includes sin that you're not "recognizing" as such, such as "original" sin.
Even Christians have to be repentant if they sin. This is exactly where many of them fail.
Kelly Jay on "sin" here on Thread 158731 about page 14 onwards.
Chalk another one up for doughty incoherence and hapless equivocation. 🙂
Originally posted by FMF"The contradiction ~ and therefore the incoherence ~ is almost exquisite."
Well this is the purpose of this thread. Some people here ~ claiming to be informed by the "Word of God" ~ have assured me that, for being an "unbeliever"...
[1] I will burn in tortuous fires for eternity
...while others [professing to be adherents to the same religion and also claiming to be equally informed by the "Word of God"] have assured me that, des ...[text shortened]... e-goes-along style].
The contradiction ~ and therefore the incoherence ~ is almost exquisite.
Of a truth.
Well, I've been a believer for nearly 32 years. The morass of contradictions is virtually overwhelming. And for good reason.
For me, first and foremost, is that the Word of God is the final authority. No matter what it says, whether I like or not, whether I agree with it or not, my final decision is to trust God. I can be wrong, but God is never wrong. I lose every debate with Him.
I am at peace with my God.
25 May 14
Originally posted by josephwDo you not have anything to offer in response to the OP?
[b]"The contradiction ~ and therefore the incoherence ~ is almost exquisite."
Of a truth.
Well, I've been a believer for nearly 32 years. The morass of contradictions is virtually overwhelming. And for good reason.
For me, first and foremost, is that the Word of God is the final authority. No matter what it says, whether I like or not, whether ...[text shortened]... n be wrong, but God is never wrong. I lose every debate with Him.
I am at peace with my God.[/b]
25 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by FMF"1] Can "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family", after dying, be tortured in agony by burning flames for eternity? "Nope (he/she will enjoy eternity in heaven)."
The same passive aggressive ploy three times [...or more? I've lost count] on the same thread: copy paste something OTHER than an answer to the very question that you are dodging, and if pressed, copy paste it over and over and over again.
You have been dodging is:
So "unbelievers" ~ like me ~ are saved alongside "believers"? This contradicts statements ...[text shortened]... have made which flat out contradict it, namely that "unbelievers" will suffer "eternal torture"?
[2] If this is what happens to them, are they still "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family"? "N/A (therefore, non-applicable)."
I am willing to accept a yes or no answer for [1] and [2]." -FMF <--- Two negative answers.
25 May 14
Originally posted by josephwWell said!
[b]"The contradiction ~ and therefore the incoherence ~ is almost exquisite."
Of a truth.
Well, I've been a believer for nearly 32 years. The morass of contradictions is virtually overwhelming. And for good reason.
For me, first and foremost, is that the Word of God is the final authority. No matter what it says, whether I like or not, whether ...[text shortened]... n be wrong, but God is never wrong. I lose every debate with Him.
I am at peace with my God.[/b]
25 May 14
Originally posted by josephwThe only thing you have right now is a deluded mind.
I know that's what you believe.
The kind of salvation I'm talking about is a present possession. I have eternal life right now. I don't have to "endure to the end" to have it.
The salvation you believe in is from that body of doctrine designed for those under the law. You are misapplying the Word.
25 May 14
Originally posted by FMF"According to Christian theology, can "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family" [as Grampy Bobby puts it], after dying, be tortured in agony by burning flames for eternity?"
Do you not have anything to offer in response to the OP?
No. Once saved always saved. According to doctrine of "the mystery of Christ".
25 May 14
Originally posted by Rajk999So, according to your understanding of scripture a person with the "mind of Christ" has a deluded mind.
The only thing you have right now is a deluded mind.
Here's a verse for you Rajk. Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
I'm not listening to your corrupt and negative insults.
Originally posted by FMFOkay, FMF; you've had your fun.
Do you not have anything to offer in response to the OP?
You poked one side, pointed to the other and enjoyed your sport.
Former (self-described) believer, now (self-described) unbeliever, do you seek peace, solace?
Are you wanting to know if the 28 years still carry or count as currency or if it's all be devalued by your disregard?
What are you after, sir?
26 May 14
Originally posted by Grampy BobbyStill dodging.
"1] Can "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family", after dying, be tortured in agony by burning flames for eternity? "Nope (he/she will enjoy eternity in heaven)."
[2] If this is what happens to them, are they still "a permanent member of Christ's Royal Family"? "N/A (therefore, non-applicable)."
I am willing to accept a yes or no answer for [1] and [2]." -FMF <--- Two negative answers.
26 May 14
Originally posted by FreakyKBHJust probing the contradictory and incoherent stuff you Christian ideologues come out with because I find it interesting.
Okay, FMF; you've had your fun.
You poked one side, pointed to the other and enjoyed your sport.
Former (self-described) believer, now (self-described) unbeliever, do you seek peace, solace?
Are you wanting to know if the 28 years still carry or count as currency or if it's all be devalued by your disregard?
What are you after, sir?