Predestination. True or false?

@rajk999 said
Yes, predestined Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel. Galveston believes it applies to JW elders and nobody else

Why don't you get the facts straight, then we might talk.

@galveston75 said
Why don't you get the facts straight, then we might talk.

Lets see. Are the 144,000 referred to in Revelation, Jehovah Witnesses? Some are ? What? Are they predestined? I dont need all the facts. I need some facts to get a conversation going. If you back out then you think that people need to study your religion before commenting. Well nobody cares so much

@ghost-of-a-duke said
I think the first holds back the second.

I think only because of first (God) is the second possible.

@galveston75 said
Why don't you get the facts straight, then we might talk.

How is your unbelief about predestination now after reading the scriptures in this thread?

@pb1022 said
Partially true.

I believe some people are predestined to be saved.

But I don’t think anyone’s predestined to be damned.

Too many verses go against the idea that everyone’s destiny is sealed the moment they’re born.

Plus, it’s not (imo) fair at all to predestine someone to be damned without giving him the choice of whether he wants to be born.

I done believe in predestination as you always have a choice. So when people say “there is nothing we can do” it probably means there is nothing that springs to kind, or maybe they feel too helpless emotionally, but you can always do something.

Then we get into the question of if God (should you believe in him) can look into your future and see what you are likely to do, which is not the same as predestination. Could God look at you and your probability of being saved? I think so.

@divegeester said
Some references.

Ephesians 1:4-5
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will

Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the ...[text shortened]... been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain

I like this post. One question though.

Are the predestined predestined at the outset (birth) or do they become predestined after they have first met a certain set of criteria? I don’t know or have a hidden answer as I have only just noticed this (so thanks for posting).

@galveston75 said
Why don't you get the facts straight, then we might talk.

If I may ask, do you not get any guidance on proselytizing from the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania?

@medullah said
I like this post. One question though.

Are the predestined predestined at the outset (birth) or do they become predestined after they have first met a certain set of criteria? I don’t know or have a hidden answer as I have only just noticed this (so thanks for posting).

Thank you.

I’ve absolutely no idea.

@medullah said
I like this post. One question though.

Are the predestined predestined at the outset (birth) or do they become predestined after they have first met a certain set of criteria? I don’t know or have a hidden answer as I have only just noticed this (so thanks for posting).

There are a few schools of thought; God is total control; we are just running through a script, the end is set, there are no real choices. Another, God gives up His sovereignty to give us total freedom to choose. I'm in the camp that God never gives up His sovereignty; otherwise, He would stop being God, and He has given us the ability to choose, and He will respect and honor each choice made by us, even if it is something He doesn't want to occur. You cannot give someone the ability to love without giving them the ability to say no; there are many of us saying no to each other here and elsewhere.

@kellyjay said
There are a few schools of thought; God is total control; we are just running through a script, the end is set, there are no real choices. Another, God gives up His sovereignty to give us total freedom to choose. I'm in the camp that God never gives up His sovereignty; otherwise, He would stop being God, and He has given us the ability to choose, and He will respect and hono ...[text shortened]... giving them the ability to say no; there are many of us saying no to each other here and elsewhere.

Are you suggesting that people choose God; I mean as opposed to not choosing God?

@divegeester said
Are you suggesting that people choose God; I mean as opposed to not choosing God?

We answer God is a better way of putting it in my opinion; He calls we either respond or not; we make that choice. We would not choose God if He didn't call us; we would be very content the way we are. Christianity has some very steep things about answering God's call; Jesus says to pick up our crosses and follow Him, so there is the dying to one's self, the world is full of temptation, we shun them, it isn't an easy thing, it is, however, worth more than all of the contents of the whole world. What good is it getting the world if we lose our souls?

@kellyjay said
We answer God is a better way of putting it in my opinion; He calls we either respond or not; we make that choice.

But how can we make that choice to choose God when the bible tells us no one seeks god (Romans 3:10)?

@galveston75 said

Shut up dipstick.

@josephw said
Shut up dipstick.

Channelling @SecondSon?

@divegeester said
Channelling @SecondSon?

Channel yer orifice.