@pb1022 saidThanks PB, I very much truly appreciate your support on this.
The Scriptures dive cited aren’t just a raft, they’re robust as well.
They’re a robust raft of Scripture.
@pb1022 saidNo I'm not saying not o pray. I'm speaking about the predestination and what that means if it were true. It is fine to pray to God and thank him everyday. But if one believes that predestination is true, that all we do, when we are born and when we die is predestined. One really can't believe in both because it doesn't work that way.
If you’re a poor orphan who’s adopted into a wealthy and loving family, do you stop saying “Thank you” to your new father when he does things for you?
Do you stop saying you’re sorry when you do something wrong?
Do you stop asking him for help when you’re in trouble?
Just because you’re part of the family doesn’t mean you no longer show gratitude and remorse and ask for help.
Predestination is what it is. If one is predestined to die on a certain date, then no amount of prayer to God will stop it. Right?
If one rides a motorcycle without a helmet even though if the gets into a crash they will probably die because of not wearing that helmet, they will probably say: "Well if it's my time too die then so be it". But if they pray for protection of their life when they ride there is really no need to if they believe in predestination. No prayer will change anything.
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In Ephesians 1:5 I personally out more emphasis on the phrase "in Him".
"Even as He chose us . . . IN HIM . . . before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,
Predestinating us untp sonshjip . . . through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will . . . "
I am not saying I fully understand predestination. But I am saying I like emphasize that "in Him we are God's choice. And "in Him" a destiny of sonship is secured before the creation of the universe.
"IN HIm" our destiny has beem marked out.
" . . . He graced us in the Beloved." (v.6)
In Christ is all this blessing. Outside of Christ there is not this blessing.
In the sphere and realm of Christ is the destiny secure.
Many have tried to reconcile predestination and free will. I don't think anyone on this side of eternity future may be able to do so. I cannot. But the pragmatic thing to do is be "in Him". And He is willing to receive us.
We should enter into His gates with thanksgiving and into His courts with praise.
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@divegeester saidAnd I very much appreciate your robust rafts of Scripture.
Thanks PB, I very much truly appreciate your support on this.
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@galveston75 saidBut I think the Holy Bible demonstrates that God responds to prayer.
No I'm not saying not o pray. I'm speaking about the predestination and what that means if it were true. It is fine to pray to God and thank him everyday. But if one believes that predestination is true, that all we do, when we are born and when we die is predestined. One really can't believe in both because it doesn't work that way.
Predestination is what it is. If one ...[text shortened]... y ride there is really no need to if they believe in predestination. No prayer will change anything.
@pb1022 saidOf course he does. Thank goodness. But if one is predestined to die a week away then no amount of prayer would work, right? If you have been in those plans to die for eons of time you have no chance to be saved from that, according to predestination laws. Right?
But I think the Holy Bible demonstrates that God responds to prayer.
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@galveston75 saidI don’t believe in predestination to the extent you appear to.
Of course he does. Thank goodness. But if one is predestined to die a week away then no amount of prayer would work, right? If you have been in those plans to die for eons of time you have no chance to be saved from that, according to predestination laws. Right?
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God not only responds to prayer. There things He will not do unless prayer from men on earth have sought them. He waits for man to agree with His desired will and ASK Him to fulfill it.
Sometimes He even exhorted His people to "command" Him concerning His will.
Isaiah 45:11 - " Thus says Jehovah, The Holy One of Israel and the One who formed him,
Ask Me about the things to come concerning My sons, And concerning the work of My hands, command Me "
@pb1022 saidNo I don't believe in it at all. But just interesting in seeing how ones who do, try to explain it.
I don’t believe in predestination to the extent you appear to.
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@galveston75 saidWhere’s dive with another robust raft of Scripture when we need him?
No I don't believe in it at all. But just interesting in seeing how ones who do, try to explain it.
@pb1022 saidNone needed.
Where’s dive with another robust raft of Scripture when we need him?
@galveston75 saidSome biblical references to help with your unbelief Galveston75:
No I don't believe in it at all. But just interesting in seeing how ones who do, try to explain it.
Ephesians 1:4-5
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will
Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen
Ephesians 1:11-12
In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will, so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory
Revelation 13:8
And all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain
@sonship saidNot because you can quote the scripture means that you are part of the group selected and predestined for eternal life. Nobody knows who is and who is not predestined so the whole issue is irrelevant.
In Ephesians 1:5 I personally out more emphasis on the phrase "in Him".
"Even as He chose us . . . IN HIM . . . before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love,
Predestinating us untp sonshjip . . . through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will . . . "
I am not saying I full ...[text shortened]... to receive us.
We should enter into His gates with thanksgiving and into His courts with praise.
@divegeester saidHow do we know who is called and who is chosen and who is neither.
Some biblical references to help with your unbelief Galveston75:
Ephesians 1:4-5
Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will
Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he ...[text shortened]... been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain
I suspect nobody knows.