02 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipI have never said anything to you even remotely as insulting as likening you to a holocaust denier ~ which is about as despicable a comparison as you can make during a discussion of your superstitious beliefs in supernatural beings. If I ever do liken you to a holocaust denier for clinging to beliefs that I am not convinced are true, then you can call me out for my hypocrisy.
You offend me a lot.
I don't go chasing you around for apologies.
And a large amount of your offenses are tailored, engineered, and designed to insult.
02 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipIn reference to you likening Deep Thought to a holocaust denier for having a different perspective on Jesus than you, robbie carrobie said: "People say many things in the heat of debate that they might not normally say under other circumstances and later regret...". Has robbie misjudged you and your comment?
But I have no need to apologize.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
02 Nov 16
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFThat's a conversation between you and Robbie.
In reference to you likening Deep Thought to a holocaust denier for having a different perspective on Jesus than you, robbie carrobie said: "People say many things in the heat of debate that they might not normally say under other circumstances and later regret...". Has robbie misjudged you and your comment?
I don't feel to interject my thoughts into it.
I do not want to waste effort and time pointing to ME.
I neither want to waste time constantly pointing to YOU.
I neither want to expend time and energy pointing to SOMEONE ELSE like Robbie.
I want to spend what time I have here today pointing people to the Wonderful Jesus Christ the Son of God.
YOU, me and Robbie and Deep Thought are not as good to point to as Jesus.
I want to talk about Jesus.
Jesus is the answer to all OUR problems.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
02 Nov 16
3 edits
He who has ears to hear, let him hear.
The question asked of three posters was about the Spirit. That is the Holy Spirit, why they didn't write much about Him.
That is "the Spirit of God". And "the Spirit of God" is used interchangeably with "the Spirit of Christ".
Now here's the important part. "The Spirit of Christ" , in turn, is used absolutely with "Christ". Christ is the Spirit. Christ is the Spirit of God. And Christ is the Spirit of Christ. That's what the Bible teaches.
This is a huge deal. This makes Christ available.
This makes Christ experiencial.
This makes Christ in a form in which Christ can enter into man and be one with man.
Since this is a NEW reality. Once we enter into this union with Christ we have to learn to live another way. We have to learn to live by this One who has come to mingle with ourselves. This learning is a life long matter.
Paul was a successful pioneer in this way of living. And here is what the pioneer wrote to one of the congregations under his care.
" But you are not in the flesh, but in the [human] spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God [the third of the Trinity] dwells in you. Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ [aka the Spirit of God] he is not of Him.
But if Christ [aka The Spirit of Christ, aka the Spirit of God] is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, the [human spirit] is life because of righteousness.
(Romans 8:9,10)
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
02 Nov 16
Herein is an important point also for Rajk999. You see Paul says -
"the spirit is life because of righteousness"
This definitely means that you cannot be BORN AGAIN unless there is RIGHTEOUSNESS imparted TO you.
You cannot say your human spirit is divine life except for the fact of regeneration and the Spirit of Christ coming INTO your innermost being.
"The human spirit is divine ZOE life ... because of righteousness.
Is there an aspect of righteousness that comes only from our doing? Yes.
But before that doing of righteous deeds the human spirit is regenerated, born again, born from above, and born anew because Christ as RIGHTEOUSNESS has been implanted INTO the human spirit.
Rajk999, seems to fight against this biblical truth.
Now, there is a point here for the anti - Trinity folks too. That is because the very next verse 11 used the following "Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead" seamlessly and interchangeably with CHRIST of verse 10.
Sure he does. Look:
"But if Christ is in you ... And if the Spirit is of the One who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you ... "
The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ.
The Spirit of Christ is Christ.
Christ is the Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead.
Praise God for the mystery of the Triune God.
Man can experience and enjoy such a fantastic Person.
02 Nov 16
Originally posted by sonshipBut didn't you start a whole thread - this one, in fact - to point to robbie (and others)? Didn't you name him specifically in your OP? And didn't you start this whole thread to point to yourself and draw attention to how you talk about the "Holy Spirit" more than robbie and the others do? Didn't you point to them and didn't you want all readers of this thread to know it? And haven't you been pointing to yourself all along?
I do not want to waste effort and time pointing to ME. [...]
I neither want to expend time and energy pointing to SOMEONE ELSE like Robbie.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
Originally posted by FMF
But didn't you start a whole thread - this one, in fact - to point to robbie (and others)?
.
Yep I mentioned some specific people. .And now I explain what I really want to talk about.
"The Spirit" "Christ" "The Spirit of God" "The Spirit of the One who raised Jesus from the dead."
In anticipation: IE.
"But I THOUGHT you wanted to talk about Robbie and Divegeester and Rajk999 ,"
No, not really. I mentioned names. But the goal was to get to speak with thread participants about the Person about WHOM the question was to those three - "The Spirit"
Didn't you name him specifically in your OP?
Yes.
And didn't you start this whole thread to point to yourself and draw attention to how you talk about the "Holy Spirit" more than robbie and the others do?
No. But to talk about "the Spirit" ... "the Holy Spirit" ... that is my intention.
Didn't you point to them and didn't you want all readers of this thread to know it? And haven't you been pointing to yourself all along?
You see to it that I am coerced to try to defend myself because you want to talk about sonship. So the personal pronoun "I" has been used.
And the personal pronoun "I" was used before too.
Is this the first thread which someone sought to get back on track ?
Nope.
Hey Robbie,
Hey Divegeester,
Hey Rajk999,
Christ is the Spirit. And the Spirit can get into us.
Jesus said it is EXPEDIENT that the Spirit come. In other words it is to the greater advantage of His lovers that Jesus physically not appear for a time, and His lovers get to know "the Spirit of reality".
On His way to the cross, Jesus explained to the frightened and sorrowful disciples that it was to their advantage and their expediency that He come to live in them as "The another Comforter" the Holy Spirit.
Look at this wonderful passage:
" But now I am going to Him who sent Me; and none of you asks Me, Where are you going?
But because I have spoken these things to you, sorrow has filled your heart.
But I tell you the truth, It is EXPEDIENT for you that I am going away; for if I do not go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you." (John 16:5-7)
God on the outside sends God to be on the inside.
The outside Comforter will come as the inside "Another Comforter".
Christ among us physically is great.
Christ living in man as the life giving Spirit is greater.
Christ as the King reigning outwardly in God's kingdom is great.
Christ reigning from within as the indwelling Spirit of Christ is even greater.
".. the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45)
" And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom." (2 Cor. 3:17)
We need Christ, the Spirit implanted into our innermost spiritual being. Then from center to circumference we must have this Christ saturate, permeate, and fully mingle Himself with our being for full salvation.
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
02 Nov 16
2 edits
Originally posted by robbie carrobie
In the past I posted much on the Holy spirit and you simply refused to read it.
Yes, you did refer to some writings on the Spirit.
I have simply better things to do that waste my time with people who are unreceptive and who make claims of,' why don't you talk much about Holy spirit', when they refuse to read anything that conflicts with their dogma.
That is your choice.
I know what you teach. As a good student of the W word, you go into the Old Testament to pull out as many references as you can to demonstrate that the Spirit of God is a force, an energy, a power. But to you He is not God and not a living "Person".
Wholly the Spirit of God for the Watchtower student is not the living God Himself.
This doesn't stand up to the Bible's revelation. And I do believe that far from ignore the points of those articles you referred me to, I ANSWERED many of the traditional points (traditional to the Jehovah's Witnesses).
One that I remember was that I pointed out that the New Testament tells us not to GRIEVE the Holy Spirit.
One would not speak of grieving anyone but a "Person". You cannot "grieve" the force of gravity. You cannot "grieve" the force of electricity.
Do not make unhappy or sad the indwelling Holy Spirit Who has sealed the saved until the day of the transfiguration of their bodies, says the Bible.
" And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God in whom you were sealed unto the day of redemption." (Eph. 4:30)
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
02 Nov 16
I have simply better things to do that waste my time with people who are unreceptive and who make claims of,' why don't you talk much about Holy spirit', when they refuse to read anything that conflicts with their dogma.
is it "my dogma" or is it the teaching of the word of God ?
Did you read about the Spirit LUSTS against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit ?
" But i say, Walk by the Spirit and you shall by no means fulfill the list of the flesh.
For the flesh lists against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these oppose each other that you would not do the things that you desire. " (Gal. 5:16,17)
So it is not merely my erroneous dogmatic teaching that the Spirit is the living Christ Who is God incarnate.
For certain, "the flesh" involves personality of the fallen mankind. It is a person lusting there. And "the Spirit" who lusts for righteousness contrary to the sin impowered, sin infested fallen man, is also a "Person".
these two are opposed to each other. The Christian must learn to be led by the indwelling Person of the Holy Spirit.
"But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." (v.18)
The Person of the Spirit also cries in the Christians' crying of "Daddy, Papa, Abba, Abba Father." This is the crying not of a mere force. This is the crying of the SON in His form as the Spirit - one with the regenerated spirit of the believer.
" For you have not received a spirit of slavery bringing you into fear again, but you have received a Spirit of sonship in which we cry, Abba Father!
The Spirit Himself witnessing with our spirit that we are children of God." (Romans 8:15,16)
This is not just my erroneous dogma that "the Spirit Himself" is the Son of God crying mingled in our crying 'Abba Father".
" He who is joined to the Lord is one Spirit " ( 1 Cor. 6:17)
The basis for teaching that the Person of Jesus Christ can come to live in us today is also found in the biblical revelation that .To be JOINED to THE LORD is to be ONE SPIRIT with the Holy Spirit.
The two mingle as one IN the saved Christian. The TWO spirits - the human spirit and the Holy Spirit - are united, joined, blended, mingled in us to become "one spirit".
Since the Holy Spirit can come to dwell in man to be one spirit with man, the Apostle can say that Jesus Christ Himself is in the believers.
" Test yourselves whether you are in the faith; prove yourselves.
Or do you not realize about yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, unless you are disapproved?" (2 Cor. 13:5)
And OF COURSE ... the Spirit has a MIND ... So He is a PERSON ...
" ... but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
But He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He [the Spirit] intercedes for the saints according to God." (See Rom. 8:26b,27)
Don't you want the Holy Spirit to enter into you so that He may pray and intercede properly according to God's will and God's eternal purpose ?
Until this evening, that is all the time I have today.
Originally posted by sonshipThe only reason why you keep repeating your long explanations of your false doctrines is that you are not sure of it yourself and you are in vain trying to convince yourself that your doctrine is correct.
..Don't you want the Holy Spirit to enter into you so that He may pray and intercede properly according to God's will and God's eternal purpose ?
Until this evening, that is all the time I have today.
However the truth is plain and simple:
The Holy Spirit / Comforter is with,,
and has entered into
and dwells with,
and abides with
all who follow the commandments of Christ.
The proof that one has the Spirit of Christ is that they do not continue with sin and evil. That certainly is not the case with Christians who [eg on this forum], continue with their boast that they can sin and it will not be accountable for it.
Paul in Romans never once said that all those who profess Christ have the Spirit of Christ.
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.(Romans 8:12-14 KJV)
Here Paul addresses Christian brothers, and he clearly identifies two types
- Christians who live after the flesh [ie sin] and who will die.
- Those who live through the Spirit [ie the commandments of Christ], they will live.
Not all Christians have the Spirit of Christ.. . some do and some do not.
02 Nov 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobiesonship does not retract his comparison of Deep Thought to a holocaust denier. With your references to "weakness" and "regret", you seem to have misread the situation and misread sonship's intent.
People say many things in the heat of debate that they might not normally say under other circumstances and later regret, especially if they are provoked or someone manages to get 'under their skin'. Using the weaknesses of others as a pretext to invalidate their entire contribution is rather heinous FMF and betrays a lack of compassion.
03 Nov 16
4 edits
Originally posted by FMFIts possible. I am after all a human and prone to aberration.
sonship does not retract his comparison of Deep Thought to a holocaust denier. With your references to "weakness" and "regret", you seem to have misread the situation and misread sonship's intent.
Never the less I am forced to ask myself what this bickering between you and sonhsip has achieved and it appears to me that its nothing but contentiousness for its own sake. Its nothing but a kind of flotsam and jetsam thrown up by turbulent waters and left exposed on the beach until the next tide.
I just don't see the point, so he called someone a holocaust denier? so what? Are we meant to reel backwards speechless, winded by the abject horror and aghast at the mere thought of it? Surely it would suffice to state that those involved were not holocaust deniers and that the attempt to draw a similarity could not logically be substantiated?
- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
- Moves
- 29793
03 Nov 16
Originally posted by robbie carrobieProne to aberration or predisposed to aberration?
Its possible. I am after all a human and prone to aberration.
Never the less I am forced to ask myself what this bickering between you and sonhsip has achieved and it appears to me that its nothing but contentiousness for its own sake. Its nothing but a kind of flotsam and jetsam thrown up by turbulent waters and left exposed on the beach until ...[text shortened]... olocaust deniers and that the attempt to draw a similarity could not logically be substantiated?
- Joined
- 03 Jan 13
- Moves
- 13080
03 Nov 16
4 edits
Originally posted by Rajk999
Not all Christians have the Spirit of Christ.. . some do and some do not.
This is a false teaching of Rajk999.
The New Testament says emphatically -
" Yet if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him." (Romans 8:9b)
Now you may say " I cannot see the Spirit of Christ in the way he lives."
Or you may say " I cannot tell if he is a Christian or not."
That is a matter of what another human being can perceive; can detect.
But God knows. And the truth of the matter is -
"If ANYONE ... does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not of Him."
The phrase "...he is not of Him" we should take to mean he is not a Christian.