Question to three posters

Originally posted by Rajk999
Long posts trying to explain simple basic teachings is a sign of false doctrines. For me, Jesus and the Apostles were crystal clear and spoke in simple plain language. But jaywill/sonship cannot do that .. he cannot just quote and let the Bible speak.. he needs to turn and twist it.

Perhaps he needs to dwell on the example of Jesus who was succinct and crystal clear in his teaching, well except when he was being a little cryptic 😀

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I have already pointed out that sonhsip statement is illogical .

And what was sonship's reply to you when you did?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I get a sore finger scrolling down through jaywills posts.

Is that due to preexisting blisters, caused by all that typing you have been doing rigging clan matches?

(I'm in the mood to cause trouble).

Originally posted by FMF
And what was sonship's reply to you when you did?

he went on a rant about the regeneration of the spirit

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Is that due to preexisting blisters, caused by all that typing you have been doing rigging clan matches?

(I'm in the mood to cause trouble).

rigging clan matches? dude please I never discuss business outside of the family. capiche?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
You attacked him on the basis of some kind of moral outrage which is simply not good enough.

I think sonship's poisonous attack on DeepThought - by likening him to a holocaust denier - was caused by some sort of supposedly "moral" outrage on sonship's part when faced with beliefs (regarding Jesus) that were different than his (he did the same to me a few months ago). Personally, I think it might have been a calculated insult to bring conversations with DeepThought to an end; if so, it has succeeded. If you don't want to confront sonship about the sheer nastiness of the ludicrous comparison, fair enough. You seem to be trying to make what is or isn't "good enough" for robbie the topic of the conversation.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
he went on a rant about the regeneration of the spirit

Oh? sonship "went on a rant about the regeneration of the spirit" when you confronted him on the holocaust denier comparison? When did that happen?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Perhaps he needs to dwell on the example of Jesus who was succinct and crystal clear in his teaching, well except when he was being a little cryptic 😀

I think he as already done that and has concluded that the commandments and teachings of Christ are too difficult so he has gravitated to lesser teachings like that of Witness Lee and others who preach how evil good works are, and how only mouth worship is required.

Originally posted by FMF
Oh? sonship "went on a rant about the regeneration of the spirit" when you confronted him on the holocaust denier comparison? When did that happen?

I did not confront sonship. I have not claimed to have confronted anyone you simply made it up. As far as I am aware sonship made no reply and why should he, the text was not directed at him, but to you. After my text was posted he went on about the regeneration of the spirit, which is what he does.

Originally posted by FMF
I think sonship's poisonous attack on DeepThought - by likening him to a holocaust denier - was caused by some sort of supposedly "moral" outrage on sonship's part when faced with beliefs (regarding Jesus) that were different than his (he did the same to me a few months ago). Personally, I think it might have been a calculated insult to bring conversations with ...[text shortened]... e trying to make what is or isn't "good enough" for robbie the topic of the conversation.

Sorry but I am interested in reason. If there is reason then let it be heard, other than that, I am not that interested sorry.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Sorry but I am interested in reason. If there is reason then let it be heard, other than that, I am not that interested sorry.

If you don't know the reasoning behind finding sonship's likening DeepThought to a holocaust denier to be a poisonous attack on him, then so be it. You are not going to get any help from me with it.

Originally posted by FMF
If you don't know the reasoning behind finding sonship's likening DeepThought to a holocaust denier to be a poisonous attack on him, then so be it. You are not going to get any help from me with it.

ok

Originally posted by robbie carrobie

Yes that makes sense. Perhaps its Jaywills interpretation of the spirit, he thinking it is a personage that has led him to the idea that its not possible for God to withdraw his spirit from someone, even someone that he personally chose. This is demonstrably false. Its a symptom of the once saved always saved neo-Calvinistic doctrine of predetermination.

The Old Testament stories of the prophets notwithstanding, the New Testament believers receive the Spirit of Christ from the point of regeneration onward into eternity.

Now let's see if we can get you convinced, or at least to think on this for a night.

In Romans 5:5 Pauls tells the Christians that the Holy Spirit has shed the love of God abroad into their hearts. So said Witness Lee ? So said the word of God.

"And hope does not put us to shame, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit, who has been given to us." (Rom. 5:5)

Has the Holy Spirit been given to you ?
Are you aware of the love of God poured out into your heart through this Holy Spirit?

The Holy Spirit is given to the Christians. And WITH the Holy Spirit the divine love of God is poured out into their hearts.

But in the climax of this wonderful chapter 8 Paul insists that NOTHING but NOTHING can separate the believers from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

" But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us.

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Rom. 8:37-39)

Nothing in all the universe can separate the redeemed woman or man from the poured out love of God which has been brought into them by "the Holy Spirit".

" But in all these things we more than conquer through Him who loved us.

For I am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor things present nor things to come nor powers nor height nor depth nor any other creature will be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Rom. 8:37-39)

The Holy Spirit is given to the believers as Paul says in Rom. 5:5.
He brings with Him the love of God, pouring this love out into the hearts of the saved.

What can separate the Christian from this love of God in Christ Jesus ?

Paul was persuaded. You need to be persuaded too.
"In Christ Jesus" the Holy Spirit is given to be with the saved - FOREVER ( John 14:16) . And nothing, no way, no how, can separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus.

1.) The Holy Spirit is given to the saved person.

2.) With the Holy Spirit the love of God is poured out into their hearts.

3.) Nothing in all the universe can separate them from this love.

Allow yourself to be subdued by Christ Jesus our Lord, to receive this inseparable eternal love.

Now ... OUTSIDE ... of Christ Jesus, God does love man. But God will not give up His eternal righteous standard. He will not liberally and sentimentally relinquish His holiness, righteousness, and glory even though He loves the sinner so.

We all must deal with the God Who loves to the uttermost for eternity, yet will not give up His holy, righteous, and glorious being, throwing it away because we refuse to come to Him for forgiveness.

We must be subdued by Him and simply ask Him to do what He is eager to do - put us into Christ Jesus and to put Jesus Christ into us, and with Jesus pouring out the divine love into our hearts who receive Jesus.

From The Life Study of Romans by Witness Lee.
(my bolding)

III. HEIRS INSEPARABLE FROM GOD’S LOVE

“Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For Your sake we are being put to death all day long, we have been reckoned as sheep for slaughter” (vv. 35-36). Although this certainly speaks of suffering, the following verses declare, “But in all these things we more than conquer through Him Who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord” (vv. 37-39). We are not defeated; we more than conquer because God loves us. Why does God care so much for us and do so many things for us? Simply because we are His beloved. No one can separate us from His love. Once He loves us, He loves us forever with an eternal love. Nothing can separate us from Him. Because He loves us and because we are His beloved, sooner or later we all shall be sanctified, transformed, conformed, and glorified.

Paul was wise and very deep. As I have pointed out previously, he composed three of the sections in Romans according to three of the attributes of God—His righteousness, holiness, and glory. Eventually, however, Paul guides us into the love of God. Ultimately, our security is not only God’s righteousness, holiness, and glory, but also His love. What is God’s love? Love is the heart of God. God’s love issues out of His heart. Righteousness is the way of God, holiness is the nature of God, glory is the expression of God, and love is the heart of God. After speaking of God’s righteousness, holiness, and glory, Paul brings us into God’s heart of love. Why has God demonstrated His righteousness? Because man was fallen. Man was wrong with God and needed His righteousness. Why must God exercise His holiness? Because man is common. God must sanctify all of His common, chosen ones. Why must God give us His glory? Because all His chosen ones are low, mean, and vile. Hence, He must exercise His glory to transfigure us. But what was in God’s heart originally? Love. Before God exercised His righteousness, holiness, and glory He loved us. Love was the fountain, love was the root, and love was the source of it all. God loved us before He predestinated us, He loved us before He called us, He loved us before He justified us, and He loved us before He glorified us. Before everything and anything else He loved us. Our salvation originated with the love of God. Love is the source of all that God does for us, and this love is His heart. Love was the source of God’s eternal salvation which includes redemption, justification, reconciliation, sanctification, transformation, conformation, and glorification. Salvation began with God’s heart of love.

Therefore, after God’s salvation has been fully accomplished, His love remains our security. The love of God is not only the source of our salvation, it is the security of our salvation. Many Christians talk about eternal security. Eternal security is the love of God. God cannot be wrong in any of His attributes. Our security is His love. In verse 31 Paul asks, “What shall we then say to these things?” What shall we say about predestination, calling, justification, and glorification? We have nothing to say except, “Hallelujah!” “If God is for us, who can be against us?” Now we can understand this word in a deeper way. God is for us because from eternity His heart loved us. Thus, His love is our security.

See http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.cfm?n