Question to three posters

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I just don't see the point, so [sonship] called [DeepThought] a holocaust denier? so what?

I think likening people with different beliefs to holocaust deniers is a vivid and telling reflection on the impact of sonship's brand of spirituality on his mind map. And of course, I think this is the right forum on which to discuss that brand of spirituality.

Originally posted by FMF
I think likening people with different beliefs to holocaust deniers is a vivid and telling reflection on the impact of sonship's brand of spirituality on his mind map. And of course, I think this is the right forum on which to discuss that brand of spirituality.

Yes of course his posts are a reflection of him and his 'brand of spirituality' and his 'mind map', but we are not here to attack him personally but to subject thoughts and ideas to falsification, if indeed its possible to do so. It seems reasonable to me that it should suffice to point out the illogical nature of the comparison rather than be aghast at its moral implications. It appears to me to be some kind of false equivalence e.g. they are both in denial therefore a denier of Christ is the same as a denier of the holocaust. It simply makes no logical sense.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke

Not to speak for Rajk, but I would suggest that catholic priests, for example, who abused the children in their care did not have God's spirit, despite being Christian.

Maybe some Catholic priests have never received Christ into their hearts as Lord.
Maybe some are just "Catholic priests" who have not let Jesus into their innermost spirit.

Do you think the peculiar turned around collar surely guarantees they have to have been born anew with the Holy Spirit ?

And what really is a priest anyway ? Are you talking only about traditional Catholic doctrines about what a priest is? Or do you carefully let the New Testament inform you what a priest is ?

So we may have some Catholic priests who have never been saved.
They do not have the Spirit of Christ and are not of Him (Rom. 8:9) .

Then we have some Catholic priests who HAVE been regenerated and the Spirit of Christ indwells them. Can they do no wrong? No, they being in such a toxic atmosphere of spiritual deadness, may do terribly wrong.

So some unsaved Catholic "priests" abused children.
But even some saved Catholic "priests" abused children.

Then the question is:

Is taking away the Holy Spirit the ONLY remedy God has at His disposal to correct a Christian?

Put another way: Is the assurance of eternal redemption something that ties God's hands so that He can no longer correct, adjust, perfect, punish, discipline, a saved child of His ?

To the first form of the question - No Unsaving a saved man as to eternal redemption is not the ONLY possibility God has to deal with a sinning Christian.

To the second form of the question - No. Eternal redemption does not tie God's hands so as to render Him unable to discipline a sinning Christian.


One other question we should ask:

If God can discipline a Christian who continues in sin, is it ONLY in this church age that God can do this ?

Answer: No. God can discipline a backslidden Christian AFTER the second coming of Christ, and STILL keep His promise to him of eternal redemption and eternal life.

This should shed some light on your observation about child abusing "priests".
To be fair, any Christian, clergy or not, could fall into such a gross error if he was not careful. Being a "Catholic priest" is not the only way.

Originally posted by sonship

Not to speak for Rajk, but I would suggest that catholic priests, for example, who abused the children in their care did not have God's spirit, despite being Christian.

Maybe some Catholic priests have never received Christ into their hearts as Lord.
Maybe some are just "Catholic priests" who have not let Jesus into their innermost sp ...[text shortened]... l into such a gross error if he was not careful. Being a "Catholic priest" is not the only way.

Even Paul knew and preached that he himself could be found unworthy and be rejected as a reprobate IF, IF ...he fell into a life of sin. Hence the reason for this warning which you and your doctrine continue to ignore:..to judge nothing before its time .. wait until the return of the Lord ... those who endure to the end shall be saved.

But no ... you constantly proclaim your own righteousness, make your own judgment and proclaim yourself as regenerated... which is pure baloney..

Originally posted by Rajk999

Even Paul knew and preached that he himself could be found unworthy and be rejected as a reprobate IF, IF ...he fell into a life of sin.

That is unworthy in terms of reward.
That is not unworthy in terms of eternal redemption.

Hence the reason for this warning which you and your doctrine continue to ignore:..to judge nothing before its time .. wait until the return of the Lord ... those who endure to the end shall be saved.

Now. Matthew 24:13

" But he who has endured to the end, this one shall be saved."

So if an Atheist endures to the end he will be saved by Jesus for his endurance ?

So it is fine for YOU to judge and tell me "Clearly you do not have the Spirit of Christ".
But if I judge, it changes suddenly to "Don't judge before the time" ?

But no ... you constantly proclaim your own righteousness, make your own judgment and proclaim yourself as regenerated... which is pure baloney..

I do not proclaim my own righteousness. I do proclaim that Christ has been made the righteousness of the Christian. But that is not MY invented claim. That is the New Testament's claim for ALL who have be put into Christ.

" But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became wisdom to us from God: both RIGHTEUOSNESS and sanctification and redemption,

That as it is written, 'He who boasts, let him boast in the Lord.' " (1 Cor. 1:30,31)

Oh, by the way. Thankyou for recommending to me that I PRAYREAD some passages.

I would also encourage you to prayread 1 Corinthians 1:30,31.

Did you notice that ? CHRIST Himself has been made to the believer's - "righteousness".

So I do not proclaim that I stand upon MY merit at all.
I boast in Christ, Who has been made to me righteousness before God and man.

Were you ever a member of a group called "The Church of Bible Understanding" ? (formerly called "The Forever Family" )?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
It seems reasonable to me that it should suffice to point out the illogical nature of the comparison rather than be aghast at its moral implications.

I don’t see the relevance to me of what you happen to think will or won't "suffice". If you don't want to confront him over his use of the calculated "holocaust denier" insult then don't. If you do, then do.

Originally posted by FMF
I don’t see the relevance to me of what you happen to think will or won't "suffice". If you don't want to confront him over his use of the calculated "holocaust denier" insult then don't. If you do, then do.

You attacked him on the basis of some kind of moral outrage which is simply not good enough. People are interested in reason, not whether you find it morally outrageous or not to liken someone to a holocaust denier. Its sloppy. My solution was much more crisp and clean. Again no one has said that the idea should not be challenged but I see little reasoning in your posts other than to decry jaywill beliefs because you are morally outraged. No one cares.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
My solution was much more crisp and clean.

Your "solution" seems to be to carefully say nothing at all to sonship about the matter and, instead, say nothing of consequence to me.

Originally posted by sonship
..That is unworthy in terms of [b] reward.
That is not unworthy in terms of eternal redemption...[/b]

Total nonsense and idiotic Bible twisting. Here is what Paul said: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Corinthians 9:27 KJV)

The Greek word for castaway: adokimos - ; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally or morally): - castaway, rejected, reprobate. Occurs in the original manuscripts 8 times - reprobate, 3, Rom_1:28, 2Ti_3:8, Tit_1:16 reprobates, 3 2Co_13:5-7 (3) castaway, 1 1Co_9:27 rejected, 1 Heb_6:8

There he is speaking of eternal destruction as this one:

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned. (Hebrews 6:4-8 KJV)

Castaway, reprobates, same as rejected - to be burned. Again in Romans :

And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. (Romans 1:28-32 KJV)

According to you these will enter the Kingdom of God but he Bible says no such thing. Paul was crystal clear:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV)

Originally posted by FMF
Your "solution" seems to be to carefully say nothing at all to sonship about the matter and, instead, say nothing of consequence to me.

What is it about his statement being a logically fallacious argument that you are having trouble with? But of course pure reason is not what you are interested in, confrontation and moral indignation and condemnation is really your thing. Understood!

Originally posted by sonship

Even Paul knew and preached that he himself could be found unworthy and be rejected as a reprobate IF, IF ...he fell into a life of sin.

That is unworthy in terms of [b] reward.
That is not unworthy in terms of eternal redemption.

[quote]
Hence the reason for this warning which you and your doctrine continue to ignore: ...[text shortened]... of a group called "The Church of Bible Understanding" ? (formerly called "The Forever Family" )?[/b]

I confront and condemn this heresy! 😀

Originally posted by Rajk999
Total nonsense and idiotic Bible twisting. Here is what Paul said: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. (1 Corinthians 9:27 KJV)

The Greek word for castaway: [i]adokimos - ; unapproved, that is, rejected; by implication worthless (literally ...[text shortened]... lers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 KJV)[/quote][/b]

I get a sore finger scrolling down through jaywills posts.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
What is it about his statement being a logically fallacious argument that you are having trouble with? But of course pure reason is not what you are interested in, confrontation and moral indignation and condemnation is really your thing. Understood!

I am not "having trouble" with anything, robbie. Like I said, if you don't want to confront sonship over his use of the "holocaust denier" insult then don't. If you do, then do. I'm not interested in your "comedy" act.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I get a sore finger scrolling down through jaywills posts.

Long posts trying to explain simple basic teachings is a sign of false doctrines. For me, Jesus and the Apostles were crystal clear and spoke in simple plain language. But jaywill/sonship cannot do that .. he cannot just quote and let the Bible speak.. he needs to turn and twist it.

Originally posted by FMF
I am not "having trouble" with anything, robbie. Like I said, if you don't want to confront sonship over his use of the "holocaust denier" insult then don't. If you do, then do. I'm not interested in your "comedy" act.

I have already pointed out that sonhsip statement is illogical . Why I would want to form it into a weapon so as to accost sonhsip I really have no idea, but you carry on confronting and condemning until your heart is content, whatever rocks your world. 😵