@sonship saidI have never heard a Christian claim that Jesus ever stopped being divine while he was on Earth. Is this a Local Churches theory; or are you just grasping for something self-serving to say?
And the man, what God became, what God put on (so to speak) was then deified in resurrection.
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@sonship saidYou are not Christ.
Well, was Christ deified ?
Did the process of deification take place with Christ ?
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@sonship saidIn order for Jesus to have been deified in resurrection, he would first have to have lost his divinity. I really don't think you have thought this through. Look, for example, at Colossians 2:9 - 'For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.'
@FMF
Yes. The man Jesus was God incarnated as a man.
And the man, what God became, what God put on (so to speak) was then deified in resurrection.
I intend to show that He took the lead to be deified as a Leader to His saved who follow Him in that deification.
In His incarnation, even when taken on human nature, Jesus at no point surrendered his divine status. Please explain how it is possible (or necessary) for him to be deified?
You see the difference here sonship? Jesus started out as divine, you did not. Any idea you harbour of following Jesus into deification is born of your own human arrogance and wishful thinking.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidsonship is scrabbling around pridefully - but in an undignified way - to declare ideological stuff that he hopes will self-aggrandize him. All that we "not fully human" participants can do is witness it and wonder is he has ever "saved" anyone with his joyless, convoluted "ministry".
Any idea you harbour of following Jesus into deification is born of your own human arrogance and wishful thinking.
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In order for Jesus to have been deified in resurrection, he would first have to have lost his divinity. I really don't think you have thought this through. Look, for example, at Colossians 2:9 - 'For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.'
One has to look a little closer though these are important points.
In incarnation God took on something of His creation.
He brought divinity into humanity.
In resurrection He brought humanity back with Him divinized.
In this second step He became the Firstborn Son indicating He is to be accompanied by others sons.
The pronouncement of Jesus as the Firstborn Son was not made when He was incarnated but when He was resurrected and glorified. When He was incarnated He was the "only begotten Son" (John 1:17; 3:16) Whom God gave. If this incarnation had been the complete process then He would have been called Firstborn Son in the manger when He became like us, lived among us.
But it was not at conception or birth or baptism in water that He was declared Firstborn Son but at resurrection He was designated this.
"That God has fully fulfilled the promise to us their children in raising up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm,
You are My Son; this day I have begotten You." (Acts 13:33)
Which day is "this day"?
It is referring to the day of Christ's resurrection.
"[T]his day" the dday God resurrection Jesus from the dead was the day God BEGOT His FIRSTBORN Son.
We might ask "Why did not God say this was His Son on any day before this day? Well God did say that He was His Son before His resurrection in few instances:
Luke 1:35 at conception - "And the angel answered and said to her, The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the holy thing which is born will be called the Son of God."
Matthew 3:17 at HIs baptism in water - "And behold, a voice out of the heavens, saying, This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight."
Matthew 17:5 at His transfiguration on the mountain - "While he [Peter] was still speaking, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is My Son, the Beloved, in whom I have found My delight. Hear Him."
These utterances represent the Son of God as the only begotten Son.
But these passages relate to His being BEGOTTEN as the Firstborn Son as RESURRECTION
"That God has fully fulfilled this promise to us their children in raising up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ``You are My Son; this day have I begotten You.''
And as to His having raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to corruption, He spoke in this way, ``I will give you the holy things of David, the faithful things.''
And again in Romans
Concerning His Son, who came out of the seed of David according to the flesh, Who was designated the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness out of the resurrection of the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord;
Therefore the incarnation and everything before resurrection pertains to the only begotten Son of God. And at resurrection He took on an additional status of Firstborn Son of God - the Fistborn among many brothers who are to follow Him and to be conformed to His image according to the eternal purpose of God.
"And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His PURPOSE. Because those whom He foreknew, He also predestinated to be conformed to the image of His [Firstborn] Son, that He might be the Firstborn among many brothers.
And those whom He predestinated, these He also called; and those whom He called, these He also justified; and those whom He justified, these He also GLORIFIED." (Rom. 8:28-30).
What changed? He brought man into God in resurrection. And as Firstborn Son in resurrection He is the Firstborn among many brothers (Rom. 8:29)
When He came in incarnation it does not say He is Firstborn. But when He comes into the earth again AFTER resurrection and at the end of the church age He is then Firstborn.
"And when He brings again the Firstborn into the inhabited earth . . . " (Hebrews 1:6a)
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In His incarnation, even when taken on human nature, Jesus at no point surrendered his divine status. Please explain how it is possible (or necessary) for him to be deified?
Yes. At no point did Christ surrender His being the divine Son of God. I agree. But in resurrection that part of Him that He took on was deified, glorified, and brought back to the eternal throne of God. And in doing that He led the way for others to follow in the deification to become "many brothers".
We might wonder why He was not Firstborn among many brothers when He became like us in incarnation. But the word of God reserves that pronouncement to the time of His being resurrected to enter into His glory as a Leader and Captain of salvation.
You see the difference here sonship? Jesus started out as divine, you did not. Any idea you harbour of following Jesus into deification is born of your own human arrogance and wishful thinking.
No, though truth of following the Captain of salvation and Joshua [Jesus]) to be conformed to the image of the Firstborn is the teaching of the New Testament. As long as we recognize our deification does not involve the non-communicable attributes of God being bestowed upon us.
For example holiness is a communicable nature of God which the save may become partakers of through Christ.
" . . . for what is profitable that we might partake of His holiness." (Heb. 12:10b)
This verse speaks of the discpline of God as Father upon His sons that they may "partake of HIS holiness." So this holiness of God is communicable into His sons. And God alone is the source of holiness. "Who will not fear, O Lord, and glorfiy Your name? For You alone are holy . . ." (Rev. 15:4a)
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Traditional Christianity has largely underestimated the extent of God's salvation. That is a "so great a salvation." (Heb. 2:3)
Traditional Christianity needs to be enlarged to see not only the Only begotten Son dying for our forgiveness but the Firstborn Son leading many sons into the expresion of deified humanity.
He is able to save us to the uttermost (Heb. 7:25.)
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You are not Christ.
The church is "the body of Christ" -"the church which is His body." (Eph. 1:23)
If I hit you on your arm hard, you might say " Hey, don't hit me."
If I argued saying, "Ghost, I didn't hit YOU. I just hit your arm."
You might respond "Sonship when you hit my arm you hit ME."
The church is the BODY . . . of Christ. And it is called "the Christ' in (1 Cor. 12:12) And she is in the process of her members being conformed to the image of the Firstborn Son of God.
"For even as the body is one and has many menbers, yet all the members of the body, being many, are one body, so also is the Christ." (1 Cor. 12:12)
Notice then what the Apostle Paul wrote - "so also is THE Christ" .
So the church, under the process of salvation, is the corporate Christ.
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@sonship saidI repeat, you are not Christ. Scripture doesn't support your notion of being personally deified.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
You are not Christ.
The church is "the body of Christ" -"the church which is His body." (Eph. 1:23)
If I hit you on your arm hard, you might say " Hey, don't hit me."
If I argued saying, "Ghost, I didn't hit YOU. I just hit your arm."
You might respond "Sonship when you hit my arm you hit ME."
The ...[text shortened]... lso is THE Christ" [/b].
So the church, under the process of salvation, is the corporate Christ.
As Christians here have told you, that is blasphemy.
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@Ghost-of-a-Duke
No I indivisdually am not Christ.
I am a member of the Body of Christ the Body of Christ is the corporate Christ.
Now two men come before Christ on a day of judgment.
One twells Jesus the Judge the Lord Jesus that God doesn't exist. And he has said so for years.
"Sir, God doesn't exist ! "
The other tells the Judge the Lord Jesus.
" Lord Jesus, Your book said "you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus." I am, by your mercy and salvation a son of God. I also am, by Your grace a member of Your Body "the Body of Christ". Through You as my only righteous standing before You I have come here deified. Thankyou Lord"
I believe the first one is more in fdanger oif being judged for blasphemy rather than the second.
Christian, whoever you are, YOU decide which one YOU would rather be. You decide which is more likely to be charged with blasphemy before God.
@sonship saidThe human "side" of him was surely terminated by the execution the Romans carried out, and then the supernatural, divine "side" of him rose from the dead.
At no point did Christ surrender His being the divine Son of God. I agree. But in resurrection that part of Him that He took on was deified, glorified, and brought back to the eternal throne of God.
He was - after all - the Son of God, or even God Himself, so there was no way he needed to be "deified".
Just offering a thought for you to ponder, because what you are saying sounds ridiculous: it sounds like a pretty straightforward narrative/folklore crowbarred into cultish theory/'unique selling point'.
Especially when you then go on to say "...in doing that He led the way for others to follow in the deification...". Gosh, sounds like you are really wielding that crowbar.
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@sonship saidOf the 2 of us, only you think you will be deified.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke
No I indivisdually am not Christ.
I am a member of the Body of Christ the Body of Christ is the corporate Christ.
Now two men come before Christ on a day of judgment.
One twells Jesus the Judge the Lord Jesus that God doesn't exist. And he has said so for years.
"Sir, God doesn't exist ! "
The other tells the Judge th ...[text shortened]... ch one YOU would rather be. You decide which is more likely to be charged with blasphemy before God.
Blasphemy is your bag, not mine. Genuine Christians have told you such in this very thread. Not one has agreed with you, not one.
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So what do we have? We have the complaint that I am not Jesus Christ.
This is true that I cannot say I am Jesus Christ.
But let's see about His salvation.
1.) Paul said that it pleased God to "reveal His Son in me."
"But when it pleased God, who set me apart from my mother's womb and called me through His grace, to reveal His Son in me that I might announce Him as the gospel among the Gentiles . . . " (Galatians 1:15,16a)
And Paul said that he was "less than the least of all saints"(Eph. 3:8)[/b]
I can also say as a saint, a believer in Jesus, it pleased God to also "reveal His Son in me."
2.) Brother Paul practically scolded the saints in Corinth, that they must recognize the normal faith. Jesus Christ was in them. Otherwise the might be "disapproved" concerning the faith.
"Test your selves whether you are in the faith' prove yourselves. Or do you not realize about yourselves that JEsus CHrist is in you, unless you are disappreived?"
To be "approved" as normal in the faith Christians must realize that Jesus Christ is in them.
3.) Paul, a model believer, said for HIM to live was Christ. Though he was less than the least of all saints and "no fit to be called an apostle because" he persecuted the church, NEVERTHELESS wrote:
"For me to live . . . is Christ and to die is gain.) (Phil. 1:21)
Paul's living meant - Jesus Christ. He not only grew spiritually to live FOR Christ and live UNTO CHrist but to LIVE CHRIST. Christ LIVED through Paul.
4.) Since Paul's living had come to be Christ living through him, Paul said paradoxically that it was no longer HE who lived but Christ who lived in him.
"I am crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me; " (Gal. 2:20)