@ghost-of-a-duke saidMost appropriate ... continuing is the end result of deification ambition...
@sonship
‘In the pride of your heart
you say, “I am a god;
I sit on the throne of a god
in the heart of the seas.”
But you are a mere mortal and not a god,
though you think you are as wise as a god.'
Ezekiel 28:2
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas. Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD. (Ezekiel 28:6-10 KJV)
@sonship said"This means that the New Jerusalem, as the ultimate and eternal corporate expression of the Triune God,"
KingDavid403,
Did you see this post in this discussion from me?
I add some bolding this time.
Quotations from Affirmation and Critique magazine published by Living Stream Ministry. Vol XV No. 2 Fall of 2010.
Article by Ron Kangus entitled New Jerusalem - the Consummation of the Divine Economy according to the High Peak of the Divine Revelato ...[text shortened]... coming man and man becoming God in life and nature but not in the Godhead."
- pg. 24
I believe none of this; and, I never will. furthermore, I am a "Oneness" believer. God is One God; as Scriptures tell us dozens of times. God is not three gods sitting around having a pow-wow agreeing on everything; my thoughts.
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@KingDavid403
Morning KIngDavid403,
Catching up with replies here which will take some time.
I certainly did not mean to hurt or offend you in anyway. I was inquiring.
It is not at all a matter of offense which concerns me here, but accuracy.
You see much fear is the response (and justified) by some who recoil at a word "deification."
Some intend to insist on only one usage of t he word, such as Nero or Halle Salasi or Kim Jun-um "deified" themselves. Or that some society "deified" a dictator or hero ie. to make demi-gods.
One of the critics here persistently insists that this the sole and only connotation of the word. I cannot help that insistence, can I?
So accuracy in appropriate meaning of the term as to how it is being used is the main issue.
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@kingdavid403 saidThe Trinity is an over-intellectualized retrofit to scripture.
"This means that the New Jerusalem, as the ultimate and eternal corporate expression of the Triune God,"
I believe none of this; and, I never will. furthermore, I am a "Oneness" believer. God is One God; as Scriptures tell us dozens of times. God is not three gods sitting around having a pow-wow agreeing on everything; my thoughts.
@sonship saidWell then, Again, what is your definition of "Deification" in this instance? Good morning to you also. 🙂
@KingDavid403
Morning KIngDavid403,
Catching up with replies here which will take some time.
I certainly did not mean to hurt or offend you in anyway. I was inquiring.
It is not at all a matter of offense which concerns me here, but accuracy.
You see much fear is the response (and justified) by some who recoil at a word "d ...[text shortened]... istence, can I?
So accuracy in usage of the term as to how it is being used is the main issue.
26 Feb 22
@ghost-of-a-duke saidI much agree.
The Trinity is an over-intellectualized retrofit to scripture.
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26 Feb 22
@kingdavid403 saidSonship has invented the word 'God-ized,' a process where humans become partakers in God's divinity. His mentor, Witness Lee, explained it as a four in one deity.
Well then, Again, what is your definition of "Deification" in this instance?
Where normal Christians see Christians 'sharing in God's nature' in regards to emulating His divine example, Sonship takes this to mean man literally becomes deified.
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26 Feb 22
4 edits
@KingDavid403
We use it to mean God dispensing His life and nature into His saved people to be mingled with them for a corporate expression of God united with glorified humanity. God became man so that man might become God in life and nature and expression but not in His Godhead.
I labored above in three recent re-posts to repeat for you what I do not mean.
The non-communicable attributes of God remain His and His alone from eternity to eternity. But as Father He begets sons (sons and daughters). This means His life is imparted into them.
Let me ask you this, because I have a hope that we can at least come to some
understanding of where you would draw some line.
Do you concur with the concept that man must be born again according to the Lord Jesus in the third chapter of John ? If so, how do you see the result for being BORN . . . again? Do you count that BIRTH is the initiation of the process of growth, development and maturing?
Put another way, is born again simply the once and for all imparting of a new life or the initiation of the GROWTH of that life ?
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26 Feb 22
@sonship saidRight, demi-gods. You are destined to be Hercules. 😴
@KingDavid403
We use it to mean God dispensing His life and nature into His saved people to be mingled with them for a corporate expression of God united with glorified humanity.
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Sonship has invented the word 'God-ized,' a process where humans become partakers in God's divinity. His mentor, Witness Lee, explained it as a four in one deity.
To be accurate, KingDavod403, I learned the term "God-ized" from someone else.
I also learned the term, "Son-ized" from that same person the late Brother Witness Lee.
Whether Lee was the first to use either of these two terms I do not know.
Nor does it concern me who invented such words (not to be located in Scripture).
You can blame me for inventing the word I used "We-ized".
As in the Triune God becomes, in a real sense We-ized in the climax of His work in the New Jerusalem.
You may blame me for (as far as I know) being the first to use that term.
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KIngDavied403,
To continue on Ghost's remark -
Where normal Christians see Christians 'sharing in God's nature' in regards to emulating His divine example, Sonship takes this to mean man literally becomes deified.
As I said befpre KingDavid403, Ghost has fixed in his mind that the only possible connotation of deification is that which concurs with mythology or ancient Greek or Roman pantheon or supertitious politics - human beings elevated to be objects of men's worship.
The criticism is just too juicy to drop for him.
I cannot do anything with this myopic dogmatism.
If I only saw "atheist" as by definition to mean, let's say - "Communist" or "Infidel"
or "Immoral anarchist" then he would protest.
So when one favors a connotation for reasons of argument, there is not much one can do about that. He will continue to accuse Christians who believe in deification in the sense of which, say, is closer to the usage of Greek Orthodoxy. for example, I just have to expect that that bias will be clung to.
26 Feb 22
2 edits
@sonship saidAre you "Born Again" ? If so, please explain the changes in you that took place when this happened. I will be glad to share my experience with you after.
@KingDavid403
We use it to mean God dispensing His life and nature into His saved people to be mingled with them for a corporate expression of God united with glorified humanity. God became man so that man might become God in life and nature and expression but not in His Godhead.
I labored above in three recent re-posts to repeat for you what I [b]do no ...[text shortened]... ] simply the once and for all imparting of a new life or the initiation of the GROWTH of that life ?
Again, I do not agree with, or believe, most of what you are posting here.
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Are you "Born Again" ? If so, please explain the changes in you that took place when this happened. I will be glad to share my experience with you after.
Again, I do not agree with, or believe, most of what you are posting here.
Before we get into personal testimonies, I would like to know if the word of the Lord Jesus Himself means a birth of a new life? Or does it mean to you some kind of self improvement or turning over a new leaf so to speak.
Here is what He said.
" . . . Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus said to Him, How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?
Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Do not marvel that I said to you, You must be born anew.
The wind blows where it wills, and you hear the sound of it, but you do not know where it comes from and where it goes; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." (John 3:3b-8)
You ask me what happened to you, and then we'll talk about it.
But forgive me, first I would like to hear how you understand the words of Jesus.
Do you count the new birth as the receiving of a new LIFE in addition to the life which one possesses from his first natural birth?
And do you understand that any BIRTH would normally be followed by the GROWTH of that born life?
Thanks if you can address those two questions before I get into my experience.
26 Feb 22
2 edits
@sonship saidDo you count the new birth as the receiving of a new [b]LIFE in addition to the life which one possesses from his first natural birth?[/b]
@KingDavid403Are you "Born Again" ? If so, please explain the changes in you that took place when this happened. I will be glad to share my experience with you after.
Again, I do not agree with, or believe, most of what you are posting here.
Before we get into personal testimonies, I would like to know if the word of the Lord Jesus Himself means a bir ...[text shortened]... that born life?
Thanks if you can address those two questions before I get into my experience.
Not a new physical life, no; a new spiritual life, yes.
And do you understand that any [b]BIRTH would normally be followed by the GROWTH of that born life?[/b]
Oh yes. With falls off our wagons along the way, and then some.
@sonship saidYou cannot make up a new meaning for the word "Deification"; or any other word for that matter. Ghost-of-a Duke is correct.
KIngDavied403,
To continue on Ghost's remark -
Where normal Christians see Christians 'sharing in God's nature' in regards to emulating His divine example, Sonship takes this to mean man literally becomes deified.
As I said befpre KingDavid403, Ghost has fixed in his mind that the only possible connotation of deification is that which concu ...[text shortened]... to the usage of Greek Orthodoxy. for example, I just have to expect that that bias will be clung to.
You still have not explained what meaning, you are trying to change the word Deification too.