- Joined
- 14 Mar 15
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- 29599
@philokalia saidImage sir I have a puppy. (Yep, another tug at the heart analogy coming up). I see him tumbling down the stairs, each fall causing him to suffer. Now, image I am well positioned to intervene and end that suffering. I have the ability and the required love to stop it. Now imagine I fail to act and allow the suffering to continue, and when later questioned on why I didn't intervene I simply answer, 'he has a lifetime of good biscuits awaiting him.'
Some of these quotations are vital to the response so I am going to highlight them here:
[quote]As an atheist, one of (if not the primary) reason I am not able to contemplate the existence of a deity who is simultaneously omnipotent and omnibenevolent is the existence of suffering, especially of the young. - The reason most theists do not want to address this point head ...[text shortened]... ging up other posters and all the years we have spent together against our will (apparently).
Does eternal reward mean a perfectly loving deity can be inactive to suffering? Is such suffering meaningless and hardly worth the effort to prevent? Is that the kind of God you are selling here? - I'm hearing you that earthly suffering 'is not the end' and that there is a guarantee of 'eternal happiness and presence with God in His Kingdom' but why does this prohibit a perfectly loving deity from recognising the reality of pain and suffering and preventing it anyway, no matter how fleeting?
15 May 19
@kellyjay saidAnother way of looking at what you are saying here is that some answers to the question “why does god allow a child to suffer” are simply not convincing when given to a person in challenging circumstances.
A question like that is prompted by what the questioner is going through, and if you are dealing with a death that just happen, or child that is going through it at the moment and your looking for answers. Having someone even correctly attempt to answer you through proper text interpretation, that is not going to deal with the heart of one who is in pain and asking out of it ...[text shortened]... one who is asking for a academic reasons it is all chapter and verse of whatever text you are using.
While I agree with that (if that is what you are saying), what it does prompt is the assertion that answer given was not robust or convincing enough in the first place and that the recipients personal challenging circumstances simply highlighted this.
15 May 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidWhat kind of heartless bastard are you?!
Image sir I have a puppy. (Yep, another tug at the heart analogy coming up). I see him tumbling down the stairs, each fall causing him to suffer. Now, image I am well positioned to intervene and end that suffering. I have the ability and the required love to stop it. Now imagine I fail to act and allow the suffering to continue, and when later questioned on why I didn't intervene I simply answer, 'he has a lifetime of good biscuits awaiting him.'
15 May 19
@divegeester saidIt doesn’t mean that the answers given are not spot on correct to that question, correct! I think you hit the nail on the head, the one suffering only response to anything not directly dealing with their pain would be meaningless and maybe harmful to them at that time.
Another way of looking at what you are saying here is that some answers to the question “why does god allow a child to suffer” are simply not convincing when given to a person in challenging circumstances.
While I agree with that (if that is what you are saying), what it does prompt is the assertion that answer given was not robust or convincing enough in the first place and that the recipients personal challenging circumstances simply highlighted this.
Every time a question is asked, does not mean that the correct answer to it it, is the technically right answer to the question.
What do you suppose would have happened had Jesus gave the correct answer to what should they do to the woman caught in act of adultery? His response dealt with everyone there including the woman showing them all they too were accountable. Had he quoted the Law she would have been killed and events surrounding Him would have spun out differently.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidIf your puppy requires shots to stay alive would you withhold them to keep them from suffering the pain of the shots and possibly side affects?
Image sir I have a puppy. (Yep, another tug at the heart analogy coming up). I see him tumbling down the stairs, each fall causing him to suffer. Now, image I am well positioned to intervene and end that suffering. I have the ability and the required love to stop it. Now imagine I fail to act and allow the suffering to continue, and when later questioned on why I didn ...[text shortened]... from recognising the reality of pain and suffering and preventing it anyway, no matter how fleeting?
We live in a world of our own making and God for a short time is allowing us to reap what we sow!
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15 May 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidThink about it in a world where there was no pain and suffering how would you know what joy and happiness was? Suffering has to exist for us to know what joy is you can’t have the one without the other.
Why is he doing that?
- Joined
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15 May 19
@dj2becker saidAh gotcha. Innocent children suffering a terminal illness is necessary so the rest of us know what happiness is.
Think about it in a world where there was no pain and suffering how would you know what joy and happiness was? Suffering has to exist for us to know what joy is you can’t have the one without the other.
@ghost-of-a-duke saidYour puppy I quite upset with you for not wanting him to get the shots! 😢 🤔 😀
Why is he doing that?
15 May 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidTruth Goodness Justice reality love I can only imagine why.
Why is he doing that?
15 May 19
@kellyjay saidI’m not sure if you meant this reply to make sense...?
It doesn’t mean that the answers given are not spot on correct to that question, correct! I think you hit the nail on the head, the one suffering only response to anything not directly dealing with their pain would be meaningless and maybe harmful to them at that time.
Every time a question is asked, does not mean that the correct answer to it it, is the technically right answer to the question.
15 May 19
@divegeester saidYou know if it doesn't make sense to you okay, I thought your post was well said.
I’m not sure if you meant this reply to make sense...?
15 May 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidUm, sure, I guess there is a point at which it is more responsible to use a lot of pain killers on your child or -- the worst thing ever -- there have been circumstances where a child has needed to be put out of their misery due to the intense suffering that they had and the inability to do any else.
Image sir I have a puppy. (Yep, another tug at the heart analogy coming up). I see him tumbling down the stairs, each fall causing him to suffer. Now, image I am well positioned to intervene and end that suffering. I have the ability and the required love to stop it. Now imagine I fail to act and allow the suffering to continue, and when later questioned on why I didn ...[text shortened]... from recognising the reality of pain and suffering and preventing it anyway, no matter how fleeting?
And that is an extremely morbid topic. But we are adults here and it serves a purpose...
Sure, yes, the humans who are caring for children would sometimes have to make very difficult decisions about ending suffering.
... Theoretically, if a wee little baby is by itself or a child is completely isolated, this is generally not going to be some prolonged suffering, and if it is anything at all like that, I would struggle to find some set of circumstances where it is not largely due to the poor choices of adults.
But here we are now, Ghost:
Trying to disprove the validity of God by looking for extreme outlier scenarios of children suffering.