11 Nov 05
Originally posted by no1marauderCo you really know about CHRIST? Do you really know about Salvation? Do you even know who JESUS CHRIST really is? Or what is the purpose of why GOD has allowed even you to make a statement such as that? Yes, it is true that we understand more than you unbelievers. Yes, Believers are able undestand, the Plan of GOD. And Yes if you donot believe THE WORD OF GOD, you really will never understand The Message of GOD.
Every time there is something you so-called "Christians" have a problem explaining in your own doctrine, you fall back on the "Only Christians can truly understand" crap. That's what I call the "Secret Decoder Ring Theory" i.e. that you were given some secret knowledge merely by saying you are a "Christian". Personally I agree that the message o ...[text shortened]... that's by ANYBODY, "Christian" or non-"Christian".
The rest is just your usual BS.
All you are trying to do is to discourage borderline believers. There is no secret knowledge to CHRIST. CHRIST did not hide from the World. HE came and walked among mankind without fear. He spoke The Truth in the open. All that happened to him HE spoke of before they happened. All the enemies of GOD, were well aware, of what CHRIST claimed.
The enemies of GOD could have prevented the Crucifixtion.They studied THE WORD OF GOD, which fortold the comming of CHRIST. That foretold the purpose of CHRIST. Yet, Yet, the best thing that the unbeliever has come up is trying to feel sorry for themselves. The unbelievers before you failed with their reasonning failed to stop the advance of the Christian Faith. The unbelievers of this day will fail as well. Hopefully you will come to come to believe in CHRIST. BUT......If you don't, you have CHRIST own words to think about for eternity.
11 Nov 05
Originally posted by ColettiThat should be very simple. All those that have acceptted JESUS CHRIST, will writen in the book of life. On that great day you will be among them, or you will see them forever throughout eternity from that place of everlasting punishment.
Do you know the names of those who are written in the Book of Life?
I'd love to see the list of names of the elect.
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11 Nov 05
Originally posted by vistesdI guess the answer would be that God is not in control of everything that happens.
* A God that wanted children to die horrible deaths in the holocaust is a monster-God.
* A God that predestined such torture and death is a monster-God.
* A God that could’ve prevented that torture and death, but did not want to is a monster-God.
* A God who designed the universe in such a way that an event like the holocaust is necessary for a grea ...[text shortened]... e so cold and dispassionate as to approach the psychotic. (Maybe Calvin had his own psychosis.)
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=364&mode=&order=0&thold=0
11 Nov 05
Originally posted by ColettiYes GOD could have stopped the rebellion. HE could have stopped all that satan has done or will do. But then there would not be any questions on why. Why we should obey and worship GOD. There would not be any choice or question on whether or not we should or not. Then we would be those robots that some accuse Christhians of being. GOD has given a choice of what we want to do and believe.
If that is true, then why did God let it happen? Is God powerless to stop these things?
11 Nov 05
Originally posted by blindfaith101thats horse poop
Yes GOD could have stopped the rebellion. HE could have stopped all that satan has done or will do. But then there would not be any questions on why. Why we should obey and worship GOD. There would not be any choice or question on whether or not we should or not. Then we would be those robots that some accuse Christhians of being. GOD has given a choice of what we want to do and believe.
11 Nov 05
Originally posted by checkbaiterAh, Rabbi Kushner! Good article. The bottom line seems to be, as you put it, God is not in control of everything—and if I recall Kushner’s book correctly—cannot prevent all the suffering (Judaism is not as big on God’s “omnipotence” as much of Christianity is). But that leads to a whole other round of discussion… I have to read Kushner again…
I guess the answer would be that God is not in control of everything that happens.
http://www.truthortradition.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=364&mode=&order=0&thold=0
12 Nov 05
Originally posted by NemesioYes GOD knew what is going to happen. That is very true. Except you are missing a point or two. When GOD put Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
I don't know what it's called, Lucifershammer. And if Bbarr says it is
rubbish, I've never seen it.
As I understand predestination (e.g., from Blindfaith101's perspective),
everything unfolds according to God's will and plan. Nothing happens
that isn't part of His goal for the universe.
I think of it this way: if I set up a bunch of dominos ...[text shortened]... er, and theft to
happen. Things are unfolding in contrast to His will all the time.
Nemesio
Did HE not give them a choice. Did HE not tell them if they ate from the Tree of Life, that they would live forever. They had option of living forever and not going thru the sufferring that mankind, has been going thru. There would not have been such Humans as Hitler, or mass muderers, or any other type of evil. They had the choice of following the Law/Life that goes with eating from the Tree of Life.
Did not GOD also not tell them that they would die if they ate from the Tree of The Knowledge of Good and Evil. Since mankind ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, would that not mean that man would have to live and die by the Laws/life that goes with eating from the tree.
Therefore is it not mans fault for what happens to man. Wars, murders, disease, hunger, and all pain and sufferring is a result of the free choice that man made. GOD had set in motion man's choice. Because of that choice, we are now paying for that choice.
Mankind seems focased on blaming GOD. The same thing that Adam did. Instead of blaming himself or satan. Man is responsible for what happens to man.
12 Nov 05
Originally posted by vistesdAll that you are talking about is the result of man's choice, when he ate from the Tree of of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore man has to live by the laws that GOD setup, for the result of eating from the tree.
* A God that wanted children to die horrible deaths in the holocaust is a monster-God.
* A God that predestined such torture and death is a monster-God.
* A God that could’ve prevented that torture and death, but did not want to is a monster-God.
* A God who designed the universe in such a way that an event like the holocaust is necessary for a grea ...[text shortened]... e so cold and dispassionate as to approach the psychotic. (Maybe Calvin had his own psychosis.)
12 Nov 05
Originally posted by blindfaith101
Yes GOD knew what is going to happen. That is very true. Except you are missing a point or two. When GOD put Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
So, God is a pervert, then? He created Adam and Eve knowing
that they would fall from grace and bring all that evil into the world.
He put the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the garden,
knowing that they would eat it and that the world would become
a cesspool that He would have to flood.
That's perverse, Blindfaith: creating a being that you know will
ultimately spread great evil all over the world.
Did HE not give them a choice. Did HE not tell them if they ate from the Tree of Life, that they would live forever. They had option of living forever and not going thru the sufferring that mankind, has been going thru.
Your lack of knowledge about the Bible is ASTOUNDING
sometimes. God did not give Adam and Eve a choice about the
Tree of Life. He never mentions the Tree of Life to them at all.
The Tree of Life is mentioned precisely two times, one when He
is planting the Garden in Genesis 2:9, and then after the Fall
just before the banishment in Genesis 3:22. The latter makes
it clear that Adam and Eve were never supposed to eat the Tree
of Life.
Anyway, even if what you say is true, what does this say
about the Creator? He created a being so imperfect that
they couldn't pick the obviously better fruit!
So God is either incompetent, perverse or both, according to
your view.
Nemesio
12 Nov 05
Originally posted by ColettiHere we go!
It is one logical conclusion.
God can not be both omnipotent and omni-benevolent
if
omnipotent means God wills all things that happen
and
omni-benevolent means God does not want anyone to suffer.
You really love to give totally unorthodox definitions to well-established
concepts in philosophy, theology and generally!
Do you still think 'fornication' doesn't mean sex outside of marriage?
Nemesio
12 Nov 05
2 edits
Originally posted by NemesioHi Red Herring!
Here we go!
You really love to give totally unorthodox definitions to well-established
concepts in philosophy, theology and generally!
Do you still think 'fornication' doesn't mean sex outside of marriage?
Nemesio
What is your definition of omnipotent and omni-benevolent?
P.S. I did not give any 'definitions' - I gave a 'meanings'. When you understand the diference you will have an insight into logic.
12 Nov 05
Originally posted by Coletti…if
It is one logical conclusion.
God can not be both omnipotent and omni-benevolent
if
omnipotent means God wills all things that happen
and
omni-benevolent means God does not want anyone to suffer.
omnipotent means God wills all things that happen…
Question: Do you mean here that strictly that God “actively” wills, or are you also allowing for God to “passively” allow? What I’m getting at is, can omnipotence also mean that God allows what God could prevent if God so chose? Or is it your understanding that whatever happens is what God must will? (Basically, I’m wondering how “big” that “if” is in your presentation; I don’t want to stumble over it&hellip😉