The book of Acts

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]===================================
If you don't mind please elucidate the Rev. 14 reference concerning two raptures.
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That both groups are taken up by Christ is evident. That does not mean however, that they are taken up to the same place.

The 144,000 Firstfruits are in heaven. The sound of th ...[text shortened]... ude. May God have mercy and bless our searching of His word for the truth.[/b]

I know your ignoring me and that's fine but I notice how you very often in your explinations of your thoughts you use the words "I think" or " I believe" or " I don't believe" or " I submit" plus other simular words like these.
The truth of the Bible is the truth and not open to however we personally think or feel about it. We can not teach anything from the Bible that is our own personal opinions or thoughts. But those type words you use above should never be used in teaching. You have to be completely sure of those beliefs and more importantly be backed up completely by scripture.

Thats very clear at 2 Pet 1: 19-21.

2 Peter 1:19-21 (New International Version, ©2010)

19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Proverbs 3:5 (New International Version, ©2010)

5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart
and lean not on your own understanding;


I'm not attacking you personally but just noticing this trend.

Originally posted by Doward
I am afraid I will have to disagree on where the saints are after we throw off these mortal shells. Heaven is wherever the throne of God resides.

Ephesians 2 teaches us that our place is beside Christ in heaven

Ephesians 2:1In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God. 2You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He ...[text shortened]... lace is in heaven.

This is the Orthodox view of heaven and where the immortal self resides.

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I am afraid I will have to disagree on where the saints are after we throw off these mortal shells. Heaven is wherever the throne of God resides.

Ephesians 2 teaches us that our place is beside Christ in heaven

Ephesians 2:1In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God. 2You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He rules the world, and his spirit has power over everyone who doesn't obey God. 3Once we were also ruled by the selfish desires of our bodies and minds. We had made God angry, and we were going to be punished like everyone else.
4-5But God was merciful! We were dead because of our sins, but God loved us so much that he made us alive with Christ, and God's wonderful kindness is what saves you. 6God raised us from death to life with Christ Jesus, and he has given us a place beside Christ in heaven.


later in verse 19 we are called members of the household of God. Rev 21 teaches us that a new heaven and a new earth will come after the judment. Perhaps the throne will be moved somewhere else, perhaps earth, at any rate our place is with Christ, and if christ resides at the right hand of the father, then our place is in heaven.

This is the Orthodox view of heaven and where the immortal self resides.
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Would I then be Orthodox to state that all human beings appear in Heaven ?

Originally posted by galveston75
The date of 1914 has never been moved up. The proof of that date is in the explination I posted.
Is it such a hard thing to understand? The only reason most refuse to even consider the obvious facts from your own bible is everyone is so stuck on the thought that Jesus will come back in person, which is never taught in the Bible.
Simple do the math...........

He returned in 1914 but didn't tell anyone? Kind of a penultimate second coming, wouldn't you say?

Originally posted by PinkFloyd
He returned in 1914 but didn't tell anyone? Kind of a penultimate second coming, wouldn't you say?

He did not return in flesh to the earth and never will. He took the seat of the Kingdom and began to rule after he thru the Devil Satan to earth. That is the first step in the New Heavens and the New Earth that so many are confused about.
The Bible says "Wo to the earth as the Devil know's he has only a short period of time."
Put the pieces together from the Bible....

Can anyone here prove by scripture that Satan is still in heaven?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=============================
I am afraid I will have to disagree on where the saints are after we throw off these mortal shells. Heaven is wherever the throne of God resides.

Ephesians 2 teaches us that our place is beside Christ in heaven

Ephesians 2:1In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God. 2You followed the w ...[text shortened]... ===========

Would I then be Orthodox to state that all human beings appear in Heaven ?[/b]

I guess that depends. One could make the argument, I suppose, that God moves the throne to the new earth and earth becomes in fact heaven.

Originally posted by Doward
I guess that depends. One could make the argument, I suppose, that God moves the throne to the new earth and earth becomes in fact heaven.

God's kingdom that Jesus will rule is in heaven.

John 14:2-3 (New International Version, ©2010)
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be ""where I am.""


Never does the Bible say that Jesus will be ruling this Kingdom from earth.........

Originally posted by galveston75
God's kingdom that Jesus will rule is in heaven.

John 14:2-3 (New International Version, ©2010)
2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be ""where I am.""


Never does the Bible say that Jesus will be ruling this Kingdom from earth.........

Acts 1:11 - Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Whether or not you will find a verse in the Bible that states that "Jesus will be ruling this Kingdom from earth", is irrelevant.

Jesus is returning to the earth and will rule for a thousand years.

Originally posted by josephw
Acts 1:11 - [b]Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.


Whether or not you will find a verse in the Bible that states that "Jesus will be ruling this Kingdom from earth", is irrelevant.

Jesus is returning to the earth and will rule for a thousand years.[/b]

In what manner did they see Jesus going to heaven in this verse you just quoted?

Originally posted by galveston75
The date of 1914 has never been moved up. The proof of that date is in the explination I posted.
Is it such a hard thing to understand? The only reason most refuse to even consider the obvious facts from your own bible is everyone is so stuck on the thought that Jesus will come back in person, which is never taught in the Bible.
Simple do the math...........

That is false G-75 in the Watchtower or Awake it was stated as late as 1975 that Jesus would come and the present system would be ended. Would you like me to find this for you?

http://www.bible.ca/Jw-Prophecy.htm This link has references tons of false prophecy. Over a 100 years of false prophecy



Manny

Originally posted by galveston75
The date of 1914 has never been moved up. The proof of that date is in the explination I posted.
Is it such a hard thing to understand? The only reason most refuse to even consider the obvious facts from your own bible is everyone is so stuck on the thought that Jesus will come back in person, which is never taught in the Bible.
Simple do the math...........

The Ascension Acts 1

9And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.

11They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into Heaven

So verse 11 means what??

Originally posted by Doward
I am afraid I will have to disagree on where the saints are after we throw off these mortal shells. Heaven is wherever the throne of God resides.

Ephesians 2 teaches us that our place is beside Christ in heaven

Ephesians 2:1In the past you were dead because you sinned and fought against God. 2You followed the ways of this world and obeyed the devil. He lace is in heaven.

This is the Orthodox view of heaven and where the immortal self resides.

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I am afraid I will have to disagree on where the saints are after we throw off these mortal shells. Heaven is wherever the throne of God resides.

Ephesians 2 teaches us that our place is beside Christ in heaven
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I am afraid that I don't understand quite what you disagree with.

Revelation 12 that the manchild was caught up to God and to His the throne.
First Thessalonians says the saints were caught up to meet the Lord in the air.

I am not sure that this presents any problems to orthodox Christian doctrine. In fact I am simply quoting the Scripture.

" ... her child was caught up to God and to His throne" (Rev. 12:5)

"Then we who are living, who are left remaining, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we ill always be with the Lord." (1 Thess. 4:17)

I never imagined that these quotations present any problem to the location of God's throne such that an orthodox presentation of Christian teaching is at stake.

Is it that you feel I am teaching that "meet the Lord in the air" somehow undermines the seat of God's authority ?

I affirm His throne and authority. In fact I previously said that before Christ touches down upon the earth He established His judgment seat of Christians in the air to decide on thier reward.

This is before "the judgment seat of Christ" (2 Cor. 5:10) which is also "the judgment seat of God" (Rom. 14:10)

I am pretty sure that we could regard this place before which "we [Christians] all will stand" to be a seat, a bema or throne of sorts.

Rather then do any damage to the truth of God's throne, I feel what I have written affirms such.

Besides this, though all Christians must be near His throne, it does not say all appear at the same time. Nor does the Bible suggest that a servant of the Lord could not be "put away from Him" at least temporarily in discipline.

So we may appear before His throne for reward or for discipline.

Would you say that this Christian does not appear before God's throne ?

"For if anyone builds upon the foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, grass, stubble,

The work of each will become manifest; for the day will declare it, because it is revealed by fire, and the fire itself will prove each one's work, of what sort it is.

If anyone's work which he has built upon the foundation remains, he will receive a reward; if anyone's work is consumed, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:12-15)

Here is a example of a Christian brother appearing before God's throne who may suffer loss, though he himself is saved.

Does your appeal to the "Orthodox" mean that Christ cannot discriminate between the service of one servant as compared to another ? Does your defense of the "Orthodox" mean that a disciple could not be temporarily "put to shame from Him" at His coming ?

I think orthodoxy or (straight footedness), or an "orthodox" Christian walk must admit that one may be close to the throne of God for discipline as well as reward.

In one sense certainly we are presently seated in the heavenlies with Christ according to Paul's revelation in Ephesisans. I fully agree. How then do we live?

To the church in Laodicea Christ makes this following promise:

"He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat with My Father on His throne." (Rev. 3:21)

Let us not get too destracted with the physical aspect of this. But I point out that the exhortation is to Christians who are all supposed to be seated with Christ in the heavenlies.

Yet how did they live? If they lived as ones seated with Christ as Paul taught, then they will be rewarded to "sit with me on My throne".

So there is close to the throne of God and there is closer to the throne of God. There is seated with Christ and there is more seated with Christ.

There is the fact of benig with Christ positionally, in the heavenlies, and there is the reward during the millennium of being seated with Christ on His throne because one overcame through grace.

Christ has the authority then to rapture some to the third heavens and the authority to rapture some to the air. This teaching, I think, does no damage to an orthodox view of God's throne.

Comments ?

Originally posted by jaywill
[b]=================================
I am afraid I will have to disagree on where the saints are after we throw off these mortal shells. Heaven is wherever the throne of God resides.

Ephesians 2 teaches us that our place is beside Christ in heaven
===============================

I am afraid that I don't understand quite what you disagr ...[text shortened]... amage to an orthodox view of God's throne.

Comments ?[/b]

my disagreement lis that all of God's children will be in heaven, as substantiated in Ephesians 2. Again I don't think is cause for major concern, the gift of life offered in Christ is as valid on earth as it is in heaven

Originally posted by Doward
my disagreement lis that all of God's children will be in heaven, as substantiated in Ephesians 2. Again I don't think is cause for major concern, the gift of life offered in Christ is as valid on earth as it is in heaven

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my disagreement lis that all of God's children will be in heaven, as substantiated in Ephesians 2. Again I don't think is cause for major concern, the gift of life offered in Christ is as valid on earth as it is in heaven
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So physically now we are in heaven ? I think we are physically not there.

But in our innermost being, our regenerated human spirit, where we are "joined to the Lord" (1 Cor. 6:17) we may consider we are there.

To come forward to the throne of grace, as we are exhorted to do in the book of Hebrews, I think, is akin to Paul saying to "set the mind on the spirit".

Our innermost being, the kernel of our spiritual being, we may say is in heaven. And when we turn to our spirit, when we set our mind on the spirit, we draw near to the throne of grace.

Paul tells us to set our mind on the things which are ABOVE where Christ is at the right hand of God.

So if Christ is ABOVE, then in a real sense we are BELOW. Yet we can set our mind on our Christ indwelt regenerated spirit, which would be to set our mind on the things which are ABOVE.

I don't think we have a significant disagreement. According to our regenerated innermost being, our reborn human spirit, we are seated with Christ in the heavens. But physically we are below and need to set our mind on the things which are above, where Christ is, at the right hand of God.

We Christians, physically on the earth, need to come forward with boldness to the throne of grace. To set our mind on the human spirit which is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit" (1 Cor. 6:17)

Originally posted by menace71
That is false G-75 in the Watchtower or Awake it was stated as late as 1975 that Jesus would come and the present system would be ended. Would you like me to find this for you?

http://www.bible.ca/Jw-Prophecy.htm This link has references tons of false prophecy. Over a 100 years of false prophecy



Manny

Get your facts straight Manny because your mixing up some stuff here.

Originally posted by menace71
The Ascension Acts 1

9And after He had said these things, He was lifted up while they were looking on, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
10And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them.

11They also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This ...[text shortened]... ll come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into Heaven

So verse 11 means what??

Who were the men of Galilee?
Who were the two men in white clothing?
What manner of being was Jesus at "this time" that the two men said they would see Jesus later? Was he flesh and blood or a spirit
Why use the expression "manner" in their statement?

Let me know what you come up with?