Spirituality
12 Oct 19
24 Nov 19
@rajk999 saidNot at all - I'm in favour of scrutiny.
I wonder what is his definition of civil. Seems that if he makes a statement and someone asks to justify it then that person is not being civil and is challenging him.
This sort of stuff though is uncalled for -
Please don’t try to “jazz-hands” me with a sonshipesque copy/pasted bucket of fire sand spam-bomb. It doesn’t work.
I mean what is that about?
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24 Nov 19
1 edit
Proposition: We are living at the time of Revelation 13 and it is happening now!
From the time that Caesar Nero's spirit comes up out of the abyss to inhabit in some miraculous way the body of the coming slain and resuscitated world leader will be three and one half years.
If you say that the time of Revelation 13 is NOW then you have to believe that this has already occurred and that we have less then three and one half years before the close of this age and the millennial kingdom of Christ.
I told you that you must gather the FACTS, all the facts in Revelation. You have to go back and read chapters 12 and 13.
How long does this beast act? He acts for forty-two months.
"And there was given to him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and authority was given to him to act for FORTY-TWO MONTHS." (Rev. 13:5)
He acts for three and one half years or according to the Hebrew year 1,260 days or 42 months.
This is the period in which the saints who have missed the rapture and are left on the earth plus select Jews will be persecuted by the Antichrist.
"And to the woman there were given the two wings of the great eagle that she might fly into the wilderness into her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time from the face of the serpent." (Rev. 12:14)
The "time and times and and half a time" means three and one half years - a YEAR, two YEARS, plus a HALF a YEAR.
This is the woman that brought forth the raptured manchild in chapter 12. She is persecuted after that delivery for 42 months = three and one half years. This persecution will be for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
"And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place there prepared by God so that they might nourish her there a thousand two hundred and sixty days." (Rev. 12:6)
Do you believe that we are presently in this period of time?
I do not believe that this span of time has yet begun. So this is one reason why I would not think that the time of Revelation 13 is now.
But it may be close. Whether close of still far away, it WILL come.
That's for sure.
24 Nov 19
@sonship saidHiya Sonship.Proposition: We are living at the time of Revelation 13 and it is happening now!
From the time that Caesar Nero's spirit comes up out of the abyss to inhabit in some miraculous way the body of the coming slain and resuscitated world leader will be three and one half years.
If you say that the time of Revelation 13 is NOW then you have to believ ...[text shortened]... 3 is now.
But it may be close. Whether close of still far away, it WILL come.
That's for sure.
This is only true if you acept the antichrist variant is it not?
If you look at things the way that i currently do, as a world power, then as long as I can demonstrate a link between the current world power and the stuff going on in Rev 13 then it fits? Is that fair?
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24 Nov 19
Medullah, I know my explanation can be rather dense. I concur about the deep connection between Daniel and Revelation. This is rather obvious.
The world powers are signified by these beasts. But remember that the individual person as a kind of ultimate embodiment of all the past world powers represented by the four empires, is also in play.
I have a few more things to related about the origin of this Antichrist - beast. My time is short this morning.
I want to end on a positive note. Christ and His overcoming army are the stone which hits the great statue in the toes and grows into a mountain to fill the whole earth.
That stone cut out without hands in Daniel is Christ the Messiah. But in Revelation we see Christ is accompanied by a remnant of victorious overcoming believers whom He has amassed through the ages. They are rewarded to accompany Him down to defeat Antichrist, his armies and reign over the nations of the world.
This is the time the governments of the earth are smashed and scattered as dust or shaft blown away by the wind.
It behooves us now to know this Christ, draw close to this Christ, and live by this Christ.
24 Nov 19
@sonship saidFair enough lets pick it up when you have more time, but I'm working on a little list - we can discuss.
Medullah, I know my explanation can be rather dense. I concur about the deep connection between Daniel and Revelation. This is rather obvious.
The world powers are signified by these beasts. But remember that the individual person as a kind of ultimate embodiment of all the past world powers represented by the four empires, is also in play.
I have a few more things ...[text shortened]... nd.
It behooves us now to know this Christ, draw close to this Christ, and live by this Christ.
24 Nov 19
@medullah saidThe beast described in Rev 13 did this :
I think you asre right Rajk.
If (as i beleive) the seven headed beast are all of the world powers, then logic dictates that it must have been at least partially present through the ages.
You have my attention.
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (Revelation 13:16-18 KJV)
History will show that Ceasar Nero achieved no such thing.
Are you in agreement with sonship that the Rev 13 beast is Nero?
24 Nov 19
@rajk999 saidNot on the basis of the things that I currently understand.
The beast described in Rev 13 did this :
[i]And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for ...[text shortened]... sar Nero achieved no such thing.
Are you in agreement with sonship that the Rev 13 beast is Nero?
To me the whole Roman thing (ceasars included) ended with the demise of the Roman world empire which made way for the British one?
I'm still working through Son's notes, and at least have understood where some of this originiates.
24 Nov 19
@medullah saidNothing he says makes sense so good luck with that.
Not on the basis of the things that I currently understand.
To me the whole Roman thing (ceasars included) ended with the demise of the Roman world empire which made way for the British one?
I'm still working through Son's notes, and at least have understood where some of this originiates.
So you believe that the beast is the British Empire?
24 Nov 19
@Rajk999
Two beasts, the seven headed one and the two horned one.
So the seven headed beast is the seven world empires which i beleives goes to your earlier point which i agreed with you on. In here we find the British empire head number 6
The two horned beast is a duality (as was the two horned ram of Daniel). I think that this is Anglo-American empire which is waging war now predominnantly in the middle east.
24 Nov 19
1 edit
@rajk999 saidNailing what exactly that mark is, is the big trick. It looks as though its a RFID chip as we are heading towards a cashless society so that would make the unable to buy or sell bit have more significance?
The beast described in Rev 13 did this :
[i]And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark
24 Nov 19
@medullah saidThe seven headed beast with ten horns appears in Rev 13. If it is your contention that this beast [head #6], is the British Empire and it achieved this:
@Rajk999
Two beasts, the seven headed one and the two horned one.
So the seven headed beast is the seven world empires which i beleives goes to your earlier point which i agreed with you on. In here we find the British empire head number 6
The two horned beast is a duality (as was the two horned ram of Daniel). I think that this is Anglo-American empire which is waging war now predominnantly in the middle east.
And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. (Revelation 13:16-18 KJV)
Does history support your conclusion?
This beast reappears later in history as the antiChrist, making war with God, in Rev 17.
Note that in this matter of the beast there are hundreds of interpretations all based on people emotions, very little on factual history and wisdom guided by God. Some think the beast is the Catholic Church and the Pope,some Islam. Those who hate the USA thinks its American Imperialism. Those who fear technology say its that and avoid credit cards etc. Its all a bunch of petty ridiculous explanations.
24 Nov 19
@medullah saidYou, like many others focus on the irrelevant issue surrounding this beast. The critical issue is the WORSHIP of some entity other that God ... WORSHIP the image of the beast.
Nailing what exactly that mark is, is the big trick. It looks as though its a RFID chip as we are heading towards a cashless society so that would make the unable to buy or sell bit have more significance?
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (Revelation 13:15-17 KJV)
The mark is a byproduct of the worship of the beast. Explain how participating in a cash-less society, which has untold advantages, constitute worshiping some entity.
24 Nov 19
@sonship saidThis is interesting. I had not heard this theory before, but it seems quite reasonable.The seven kings are seven Caesars of the Roman Empire. The first five "have fallen"; i.e., they died unnaturally (Judg. 3:25; 2 Sam. 1:10, 25, 27) Those five are Julius Caesar, Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero, all of whom either were murdered or committed suicide before John wrote this book. The sixth, Domitian, who was also murdered, was living ...[text shortened]... and will be resuscitated by the spirit of of the fifth, who is Nero, to become the eighth."
I'll be waiting to hear more of this.