@divegeester saidI most certainly am, but lets try and keep the strands tight. So before I drill down any further your going to have to tell me if your ok with the next bit. There is no point in hurling masses of stuff around as it become too difficult to keep tack of. What comes next is probaly going to be my biggest post on the subject ...... let's see.
Medullah are you coming back to discuss your claims about Daniel being the key to understanding Revelation?
@medullah saidI’ve already asked you a question but you seem to have overlooked it.
I most certainly am, but lets try and keep the strands tight. So before I drill down any further your going to have to tell me if your ok with the next bit. There is no point in hurling masses of stuff around as it become too difficult to keep tack of. What comes next is probaly going to be my biggest post on the subject ...... let's see.
Please don’t try to “jazz-hands” me with a sonshipesque copy/pasted bucket of fire sand spam-bomb. It doesn’t work.
So there will be a lot of differences on this post but the idea is to promote discussion, not a pitched battle.
Proposition: We are living at the time of Revelation 13 and it is happening now!
Let’s start off with a “top line” approach then we break things down into detail later.
In the book of Daniel there are a series of world powers are identified. The last one is not only significant because it is just that, and will be succeeded by a Heavenly Kingdom Administration overseen by Jesus Christ.
I contend that the last one is now - the time in which we live. So that makes the last world power the current Anglo-American Empire.
The book of Revelation details the time of the end, which is dominated by a series of beasts different to those in Daniel, but interact with a seven headed monster who receives power from the dragon (satan).
Now it gets a bit more interesting when we get to the subject of the seven headed beast there appears to be two main schools of thought
1) That it is the antichrist
2) That is a representation of the seven powers that have ruled the world.
I’m not really in a position to comment on variation 1 as I’m still considering it. In the case of proposition 2 I believe that there is enough recent history to demonstrate that the seven headed beast is a world power, a continuation or detail of the feet of the statue in the book of Daniel.
It is conceivable that both variations may be true as there will always be a top dog in a world power, though that top dog is less visible in the western world that the eastern ones.
Ok, blue touch paper lit, lets see where we go.
@divegeester
Please remain civil. You want me to interact with you and explain. I'm equally happy to ignore you for you rudeness and persue my conversations with the others.
@medullah saidAre you ever going to answer the simple questions put to you or is your intent here to rock up, light the “blue touch paper” and stand back?
@divegeester
Please remain civil. You want me to interact with you and explain. I'm equally happy to ignore you for you rudeness and persue my conversations with the others.
@medullah saidThis is civil.
@divegeester
Please remain civil.
I’m giving you time of day, credence, I’m addressing your claims head on, asking you a direct simple question. But you seem to have difficulty.
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medullah,
Do you understand Rajk999's objection ? It is probably due to his misunderstanding.
Does history support your assertion that Nero did in fact
- make EVERYONE IN THE WORLD to receive a mark
- that NOBODY could buy or sell without that mark?
Did I say that in the past Caesar Nero made everyone in the world receive a mark? No I did not.
The prophecy concerns what someone will do in the future.
In the past he did some very bad things.
In the future when his spirit invades the body of the coming emperor who is assasinated and live again but with Nero's spirit, he will do some more things.
We have to be clear that it is the Bible that says this coming beast comes up out of the abyss.
"The beast that you saw was and is not and is about to come up out of the abyss and go into perdition ..." (Rev. 17:8a)
When John wrote, Nero had already died and gone to the abyss.
In the end times he will "come up out of the abyss". But it should mean that his immaterial part comes up out of the abyss and invades the body of a coming person who will die by assassination and resuscitate with Nero's spirit.
In that sense Nero comes back to perform more terrible things which he did not do before, being invested now with all the authority of Satan.
This man will physically oppose Christ and physically make war with God over this planet. And it is not too soon to remind you that Christ will conquer him.
"These [Antichrist and his armies] will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faithful, will also overcome them." (Rev. 17:14)
@medullah saidThat’s fine to, I’ll leave to talk with KellyJay who also ignores me because I challenge his beliefs.
@divegeester
I'm equally happy to ignore you for you rudeness and persue my conversations with the others.
My question to you from the previous page remains unanswered:
Are the books of Daniel and Revelation meant to be interpreted as being literal?
@divegeester saidI wonder what is his definition of civil. Seems that if he makes a statement and someone asks to justify it then that person is not being civil and is challenging him.
This is civil.
I’m giving you time of day, credence, I’m addressing your claims head on, asking you a direct simple question. But you seem to have difficulty.
@sonship saidSo the beast comes in different bodies at different times during the history of the world.
medullah,
Do you understand Rajk999's objection ? It is probably due to his misunderstanding.
Does history support your assertion that Nero did in fact
- make EVERYONE IN THE WORLD to receive a mark
- that NOBODY could buy or sell without that mark?
Did I say that in the past Caesar Nero made everyone in the world receive a mark? No I did ...[text shortened]... are with Him, the called and chosen and faithful, will also overcome them." (Rev. 17:14) [/b]
@divegeester saidYou told me that you had read them?
That’s fine to, I’ll leave to talk with KellyJay who also ignores me because I challenge his beliefs.
My question to you from the previous page remains unanswered:
Are the books of Daniel and Revelation meant to be interpreted as being literal?
The book of Daniel is literal unless the subject of a vision is being discussed, as the visions of Daniel are metaphoric.
The book of Revelation is mostly metaphoric but that there areas which are clearly identified as being literal such as the etablishment of the Kingdom of God and passages such as Revelation 21:4 where it discusses the state of the inhabited world under the messianic kingdom.
@rajk999 saidI think you asre right Rajk.
So the beast comes in different bodies at different times during the history of the world.
If (as i beleive) the seven headed beast are all of the world powers, then logic dictates that it must have been at least partially present through the ages.
You have my attention.