28 Dec 18
@sonship saidYou have called me, named me as a “heretic”. Can someone be a heretic and be saved at the same time?
@FMFIf divegeester is a "heretic" according to you, do you believe he is nevertheless "saved" by his belief in Jesus?
That's not important to the OP. I'm not stuck on - "is he saved or not."
I'm just not fixated on that issue.
28 Dec 18
@sonship saidAll this “repeating until it sinks in” by you is just an excuse to spam up the thread with lengthy frothy posts which bury the core argument against your claims. It is you who needs to open your mind and stop your Local Church overlords bullying you into be.ieving what they tell you to believe ... I’m not joking either!
I am probably going to repeat this line many times until it sinks in for some of us.
Creation --> Incarnation --> Human living --> Crucifixion --> Resurrection --> Ascension --> Impartation
In the beginning was the Word who was with God and was God. That is the beginning without a beginning.
That is eternity. (John 1:1)
The Word (Who is the Son of ...[text shortened]... vine life concealed within Him in order to reproduce into "much fruit". That is many grains.
As I’ve pointed out to The Father/Son relationship had a beginning, it started on a certain day (you yourself claim that day was the day of Christ”s resurrection ) and therefore the relationship CANNOT be eternal.
28 Dec 18
@fmf saidGood luck 😆
You say you're a Christian. He says he's a Christian. We have to take what you both say at face value in good faith. Do his disagreements with you mean he is not a Christian, is that what you are trying to insinuate? You've even called him a "heretic". It seems appropriate and entirely on-topic to ask you if you believe divegeester faces "damnation"?
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28 Dec 18
5 edits
Another very good verse on the Son being eternal is Hebrews 1:10,11 which contains a quotation from Psalm 102:24,25.
The passage proves that the Son of God is Jehovah, the eternal God. If God is eternal then the Son has to be eternal.
Psalm 102:24-27 speaks of Jehovah (vs.1,12,15,16,21).
I said to My God, Do not take me away in the middle of my days; Your years are throughout all generations.
Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands.
They will perish, but You endure;
Indeed all of them will wear out like a garment; Like clothing You will change them, But You are the same,
And Your years are without end." (Psalm 102:24-27)
Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit the writer of Hebrews says the verse refers to the Son of God.
in Hebrews 1:8-12.
But to the Son, "Your throne O God, is forever and ever, and the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy above Your partners";
And, "You in the beginning, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of Your hands; They will perish, but You remain perpetually; and they all will become old like a garment,
And like a mantle You will roll them up; like a garment they will also be changed; but You are the same, and Your years will not fail." (Hebrews 1:8-12)
God is the Father and the Son. God is Jehovah the Creator in Psalm 102 and the Son Who is God in Hebrews 1. This post proves that the Son is the eternal God.
His eternal duration is compared over that of the universe He has created.
28 Dec 18
@sonship saidI realise that you are completed to keep posting these waffly affirmations sonship as I know that your mentor who oversees your posting, and porbably feeds you a lot of this stuff, will expected it. Calling these verses “proof” of your argument when they are no such thing is quite dishonest though.
Another very good verse on the Son being eternal is Hebrews 1:10,11 which contains a quotation from Psalm 102:24,25.
The passage proves that the Son of God is Jehovah, the eternal God. If God is eternal then the Son has to be eternal.
Psalm 102:24-27 speaks of Jehovah (vs.1,12,15,16,21).
[quote] I said to My God, Do not take me away in ...[text shortened]... on is the eternal God.
His eternal duration is compared over that of the universe He has created.
It’s a pity that your Local Church mentor hasn’t the courage to login and post himself.
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28 Dec 18
4 edits
As I’ve explained numerous times sonship, the Son is the Father revealed in the flesh.
This we agree on.
This alone is very mysterious. But isaiah 9:6 says the Son given will be called eternal Father.
Why do you teach then He or some office of His is not eternal?
A different, but [scriptural] demonstrably temporary office.
Pretending you don’t understand my position on this is poor form by you sonship.
Disagreement is not "pretending" I don't understand.
There is nothing about the Son of God's "office" if you wish, that is temporary. Stating this is not pretending to not understand you. It is contradicting you.
Above I showed you the Son is that enduring and eternal creator God in Psalm 102 and Hebrews 1.
The difference is that the Son as the eternal Creator because of incarnation and resurrection obtains PARTNERS. That is other created humans who through His salvation become the many brothers to the Firstborn Son of God.
But of the Son, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ... You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, [b]has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy above Your partners" ... (Heb. 1:8,9)
The throne of the Son represents (if you wish) an "office" of the Son. It is not temporary. It is "forever and ever"
Delivering up His kingdom to His Father that God may be all in all is not the termination of the Son's throne which is "forever and ever".
What is new is that this God-man now has obtained "PARTNERS" . Ie. fellow human beings who have been redeemed, saved, sanctified, and glorifies through the Son's salvation.
God has no partners. But in becoming a man, a redeeming Savior He obtains many sons as His partners. He is anointed with the oil of joy in excess to their joy.
If the Son was temporary or His office as an enthroned King was temporary He would not have "an eternal dominion" (Dainel 12) or "the eternal kingdom" (2 Pet. 1:11) . And His throne would not be forever and ever (Psalm 102; Heb.1) .
Drop the heresy of the Son's authority being temporary. It is understood but corrected.
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28 Dec 18
@divegeester
Get a hint. As long as you call the oracles of God waffle I'll call you a heretic.
Being sorely debunked as you are is not remedied by you imagining I am captive to a cult.
And I have many mentors. And not all of them are participants in the recovery of the local ground of the church.
Cry on the shoulder of your atheist friend if you wish for him to be your big brother defender. But clear quotations from God's word are not waffle. Maybe I am verbose. But I include what is written.
If you want to call it waffle then get use to me calling you what you are on this matter - a teacher of a heresy.
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28 Dec 18
2 edits
Divegeester, the throne of the Son is which:
A. Temporary?
B. Forever and ever?
Consult Hebrews 1:8.
But of the Son, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ... You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy above Your partners" ... (Heb. 1:8,9)
28 Dec 18
@sonship saidYou are calling him a "heretic" because he is repelled by your communication style and demeanour?
@divegeester
Get a hint. As long as you call the oracles of God waffle I'll call you a heretic.
@fmf saidDenying God's Word is more of an issue than communication style and demeanor.
If he finds you "verbose", does that make him a "heretic"?
Communication style and demeanor may make you an a$$, but denying the truth
of scripture or altering the truth to suit one's self could yes, make one a heretic.
28 Dec 18
@sonship saidIt cracks me up every time you compare your posts to “the oracles of god”
@divegeester
Get a hint. As long as you call the oracles of God waffle I'll call you a heretic.
Good times. 😆
28 Dec 18
@kellyjay saidI don’t deny the “truth of scripture”, I’m helping you guys get a better understanding of it.
Denying God's Word is more of an issue than communication style and demeanor.
Communication style and demeanor may make you an a$$, but denying the truth
of scripture or altering the truth to suit one's self could yes, make one a heretic.
@sonship saidAgain...
Divegeester, the throne of the Son is which:
A. Temporary?
B. Forever and ever?
Consult Hebrews 1:8.
But of the Son, Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, ... You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of exultant joy above Your partners" ... (Heb. 1:8,9)
“Today I have become your father”
What has a beginning by definition cannot be eternal.
End of argument.