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28 Dec 18
4 edits
What has a beginning by definition cannot be eternal.
What do you think the writer of Hebrews is trying to convey by saying "like the Son of God - without beginning of days or end of life" ?
Hebrews 7:3
Berean Study Bible
Without father or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God, he remains a priest for all time.
What point is the writer trying to impress upon us about the Son of God ?
28 Dec 18
@sonship saidJesus is our priest for all time, agreed. But the relationship of being a “son” is temporary.
@divegeester
What has a beginning by definition cannot be eternal.
What do you think the writer of Hebrews is trying to convey by saying "like the Son of God - without beginning of days or end of life" ?
Hebrews 7:3Berean Study Bible
Without father or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or en ...[text shortened]... all time.
What point is the writer trying to impress upon us about the Son of God ?
The problem you have here sonship, is that you believe there are 3 people in the Godhead, each equally eternal, whereas I believe there is 1 person with multiple “offices” or manifestations which are not eternal.
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28 Dec 18
Jesus is our priest for all time, agreed. But the relationship of being a “son” is temporary.
You evaded the question which was - What do you think the writer of Hebrews is trying to impress us with in saying that the Son of God is without beginning of life or end of days.
If you answer is that Jesus is a priest for all time, that falls short of the proper answer.
1.) Hebrews goes further, saying He is a Priest FOREVER.
2.) The passage indicates that there is the eternal pre-existence of the Son of God.
Though He was born a man, we have to realize on another level He had NO BEGINNING and will have NO ENDING.
I consider that you evaded the issue. And I consider that you raise a Red Herring by trying to portray me as a Tritheist.
Whoever it is that you imagine is impressed with this post, count me out. I was not impressed.
The Eternal Son -
"Without father or mother or genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God, he remains a priest for all time. " (Hebrews 7:3)
Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Without his father and his mother being written in the genealogies, neither having beginning of his days nor end of his life, but in the likeness of The Son of God, his Priesthood remains for eternity.
29 Dec 18
@fmf saidIt is quite clear divegeester disagrees with the scriptures. At the very least he believes heretical teachings. That much he makes perfectly clear.
sonship and divegeester disagree over interpretation. Does that make divegeester a "heretic"?
2 Timothy 4:3,4
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
I think that is pretty much applicable to divegeester. He cherry picks a verse or two and disregards context and the whole of scripture, assigning meaning that conforms to an assumed interpretation without regard for sound doctrine.
And since divegeester claims to be a Christian, and based on his spurious beliefs about what the Bible means by what it says, and based on his forum behavior and the lack of his ability to engage in debate without resorting to trollish, bitter, ad hominem attack and the expression of personal resentment against posters in this forum, especially the Christian posters, I think it's safe to say he is reprobate concerning the truth and Christian conduct.
29 Dec 18
@divegeester saidIsaiah 44:6
Again...
“Today I have become your father”
What has a beginning by definition cannot be eternal.
End of argument.
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (Jesus speaking)
The Son is eternal. Your superficial reading and understanding of psalm 2:7 not withstanding.
But go ahead and ignore the verses above and spew some troll bile.
29 Dec 18
@fmf saidMy opinion, why do they discuss any topic and use scripture to prove points if it is
KellyJay, I am asking your opinion.
possible whatever verses they choose to make their points with could be
metaphors, or the real meaning of the various text cannot be known for some
other brain dead reason!
My opinion, is again I'm not going to pass judgment on either of them! If they are
getting personal and emotions are riding high, I doubt the Spirit of God is leading
the way of sound judgment! It possible one of them, or both could be walking in
the flesh not the Spirit, and God is grieved. That would be more meaning full and
disheartening than someone here thinking I'm a heretic to me.
29 Dec 18
@kellyjay saidIs this why you think sonship has branded divegeester a "heretic"? Do you think it was because sonship was "getting personal and emotions [were] riding high"? Be clear.
If they are
getting personal and emotions are riding high, I doubt the Spirit of God is leading
the way of sound judgment! It possible one of them, or both could be walking in
the flesh not the Spirit, and God is grieved.
29 Dec 18
@secondson saidDo you agree with sonship when he calls divegeester a "heretic"?
It is quite clear divegeester disagrees with the scriptures. At the very least he believes heretical teachings. That much he makes perfectly clear.
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29 Dec 18
4 edits
Let us now see the Son of Man as the Father incarnate.
Notice the description of the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7 as compared to the Son of Man in Ree,ation 1.
"I watched Until thrones were set, And the Ancient of Days sat down.
His clothing was like white snow;
And the hair of His head was like pure wool,
His throne was flames of fire.
(Dan. 7:9)
How similar the Son of Man in Revelation.
"And in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment reaching to the feet, and girded about at the breasts with a golden girdle.
And His head and hair were as white as white wool, as snow; and His eyes were like a flame of fire;
And His feet were like shining bronze, as having been fired in a furnace; and His voice was like the sound of many waters.
And He had in His right hand seven stars. and out of His mouth proceeded a sharp two-edged sword; and His face shone as the sun shines in its power." (Rev. 1:13-16)
The child born is called Mighty God.
The Son given is called eternal Father.
The Son of Man is the embodiment and incarnation of the Ancient of Days.
29 Dec 18
1 edit
@secondson said‘Sonship’ is a temporary position held by the Almighty in order to redeem his people. Your superficial reading and understanding of Isaiah 44 and Rev 22 not withstanding.
Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. (Jesus speaking)
The Son is eternal. Your superficial reading and understanding of psalm 2:7 not withstanding.
But go ahead and ignore the verses above and spew some troll bile.
29 Dec 18
@sonship saidThis is exactly what I have been saying in this thread and for the last 10 years in this forum.
]The child born is called Mighty God.
The Son given is called eternal Father.
The Son of Man is the embodiment and incarnation of the Ancient of Days.
They are are the same person.
29 Dec 18
@sonship saidYou are not making a case against psalmist when he wrote the Lord’s words:
@divegeesterWhat has a beginning by definition cannot be eternal.
Far from the end of the issue.
Though He was born a man, we have to realize on another level He had NO BEGINNING and will have NO ENDING.
“..today I have become your father”
This is irrefutable sonship, you just don’t like what it says.