The god who burns people alive for eternity

The logic of it, FMF, is quite clear:

Just as how we reward those who have properly grown to love Christ and be bearers of Christ with an eternal reward, the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God, because their achievement is of infinite worth, God has decided that the punishment for rejecting salvation and God is also one of an eternal character.

The whole character is eternal.*

This meets two criteria:

- It is not illogical for a punishment or reward to be eternal when it is a summary reflection of the person as either having fulfilled the criteria for being with God, or having failed it.

- It is the revealed Truth in the Bible.

So while oen can construct an alternative to this that is internally consistent in its reasons and therefore logical to humans, it is not actually a proper criticism of the Christian view. The Christian view remains logical, it simply is, at this point, different.

Karma has within it logic, but it lacks one thing: it is not the revealed truth of God.

The first point is assailable in the sense that one can construct a logical disagreement with how a thing concludes -- logical insofar as it is internally consistent; logical in the same sense that arguments for or against the death penalty can both be simultaneously logical but still are fundamentally different.

But the second point goes back to the fundamentals of our basic beliefs in Christianity. "It is because it is," as you say. It stands to reason, but it is not proven as the only rational course, because essentially nothing is proven absolutely through rationality alone.


* This reminds me of the concept that God is beyond time. Surely, this could be a part of the discussion, but that'd be another thread.

@philokalia said
The logic of it, FMF, is quite clear:

Just as how we reward those who have properly grown to love Christ and be bearers of Christ with an eternal reward, the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God, because their achievement is of infinite worth, God has decided that the punishment for rejecting salvation and God is also one of an eternal character.

The ...[text shortened]... at God is beyond time. Surely, this could be a part of the discussion, but that'd be another thread.

@philokalia said
But the second point goes back to the fundamentals of our basic beliefs in Christianity. "It is because it is," as you say. It stands to reason, but it is not proven as the only rational course, because essentially nothing is proven absolutely through rationality alone.

Philokalia, I perceive this assertions-heaped-upon-assertions 'performance' by you as you essentially running away from the moral question I have posed.

@fmf said
I get that you agree with what the Bible says. But I require something more than 'The Bible says what the Bible says' or it's not illogical to be tortured in burning flames for eternity because it's not illogical to be tortured in burning flames for eternity'.

- It is not illogical for a punishment or reward to be eternal when it is a summary reflection of the person as either having fulfilled the criteria for being with God, or having failed it.

@fmf said
So, you are conceding that you cannot answer my question?

You have posted a lot but the content has been evasive and tangential. You even tried the assertion that I don't have the cognitive capacity to understand or accept your assertions. Now you are arguing that "It stands to reason" because "nothing is proven absolutely through rationality alone"?

The logic of it, FMF, is quite clear:

Just as how we reward those who have properly grown to love Christ and be bearers of Christ with an eternal reward, the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God, because their achievement is of infinite worth, God has decided that the punishment for rejecting salvation and God is also one of an eternal character.

The whole character is eternal.*

This meets two criteria:

- It is not illogical for a punishment or reward to be eternal when it is a summary reflection of the person as either having fulfilled the criteria for being with God, or having failed it.

- It is the revealed Truth in the Bible.

So while oen can construct an alternative to this that is internally consistent in its reasons and therefore logical to humans, it is not actually a proper criticism of the Christian view. The Christian view remains logical, it simply is, at this point, different.

Karma has within it logic, but it lacks one thing: it is not the revealed truth of God.

The first point is assailable in the sense that one can construct a logical disagreement with how a thing concludes -- logical insofar as it is internally consistent; logical in the same sense that arguments for or against the death penalty can both be simultaneously logical but still are fundamentally different.

But the second point goes back to the fundamentals of our basic beliefs in Christianity. "It is because it is," as you say. It stands to reason, but it is not proven as the only rational course, because essentially nothing is proven absolutely through rationality alone.

@philokalia said
Yet you are the one accusing me of running away from the discussion but you do not even respond to the arguments that are presented, but instead take the quotations that you want to interact with away from what they are attached to and claim I am not providing any other rationale.

@philokalia said
You aren't reading the posts thoroughly or you are choosing to not respond to the content in the posts, and instead argue by making a strawman.

FMF, you have gotten the answer several times now across several pages.

Just as how we reward those who have properly grown to love Christ and be bearers of Christ with an eternal reward, the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God, because their achievement is of infinite worth, God has decided that the punishment for rejecting salvation and God is also one of an eternal character.

The whole character is eternal.*

This meets two criteria:

- It is not illogical for a punishment or reward to be eternal when it is a summary reflection of the person as either having fulfilled the criteria for being with God, or having failed it.

Because the soul is naturally immortal.

Just as how some get an infinite reward, others get an infinite punishment.

The reason that people enter hell is because they do not repent of their sins and continue in them, and they reject the salvation that is provided through God. That salvation comes through the Gospel.

It is a choice to reject God, and after our God is rejected, you do not enter His Kingdom, but exist outside of it, which is hell. This was not His wish for you, but the wish for yourself, and He respects your autonomy and free will.

@philokalia said
FMF, you have gotten the answer several times now across several pages.

[quote]Just as how we reward those who have properly grown to love Christ and be bearers of Christ with an eternal reward, the reward of eternal life in the Kingdom of God, because their achievement is of infinite worth, God has decided that the punishment for rejecting salvation and God is also on ...[text shortened]... blamed for this answer and previous one's ,though, because FMF kept the precise question a mystery.

@philokalia said
Just as how some get an infinite reward, others get an infinite punishment.

@philokalia said
The reason that people enter hell is because they do not repent of their sins and continue in them, and they reject the salvation that is provided through God.

@philokalia said
Honestly, you have stumbled onto an amazing topic. I am doing some reading on it and hope to be able to cover it in-depth sometime.
Great, great topic! Maybe something can be done on it in the future.

@sonship said
@divegeester

I’m happier putting your intellectual dishonesty and your crappy doctrines on the rack in this one hellboy.

You're happier honing up your ad homs. I understand.

@rajk999 said
No references. Thanks. Credibility in doctrine relies on bible references. Not your opinion.