The god who burns people alive for eternity

@philokalia said
What can I do that 2,000 years of top theologians have not done?We mustn't choose to ignore the teachings of our superiors, who have truly studied these things, out of pride.

For whose consumption is this appeal to authority?

@fmf said
As "long" it may or may not have been, it didn't answer the simple and concise question.

What would the moral purpose of torturing her for eternity in burning flames for not being "perfect in all respects to every normal inclination from the moment she was born until she became a little old lady"?

What would be the moral purpose of STILL torturing her - for not being perfect while she was alive - in, say, 20,000,000 years from now?

The reason why they are in a state of punishment and torment in hell is because they have chosen to live in a way that rejects the good and rejects God, and those who reject God cannot be with Him. To be outside of God's love is a torture itself, and the result is that when the universe is filled with God's glory, it is a purifying fire of love & joy to those who are in His Kingdom, and it is like burning flames to those who are outside of it.

The result of consciously rejecting Christ and His Teachings is to be denied by Christ, and to be in this hell, and the torment of such is eternal.

Why would this be morally incoherent?

@philokalia said
I explained precisely why it is relevant: the afterlife does not have a purpose in the sense that it is moving towards a goal, as it is the goal itself.

Purpose can be used in many ways, though, right?

[quote]noun The object toward which one strives or for which something exists; an aim or goal: synonym: intention.
...

To have intention or de ...[text shortened]... ins that they have committed, and therefore have taken on the characteristic of a metaphysical evil.

In Matt 25, Jesus explains who exactly it is that turns their back on him. It is these very same people who profess to know him. Have a read.

@philokalia said
If you are asking, basically, why they burn in hell, it is because it is their just deserts as people who have turned their back on God and have not repented for the sins that they have committed, and therefore have taken on the characteristic of a metaphysical evil.

So what you are basically arguing is that neverending torture by fire is their "just desserts" because it is their "just desserts"?

@philokalia said
You know what, this must be the question. Am I right?

Is this what you want me to answer?

YouTube

A bit over 5 minutes, why is the way to God so narrow.
This video is part of "Answering the Biggest Objections to Christianity," a live Q&A with author and scholar Dr. Ravi Zacharias on April 12, 2015 at Christ Community Chapel.

@rajk999 said
Let's test your faith in the church.
Go ask a senior church father the same questions .

I am sorry, but I spend the time I do get with my spiritual father discussing things pertinent to me, and there is not enough time to throw out questions that I do not find relevant to that.

He's a spiritual father to thousands of others as well, both directly and indirectly, and I value his time and have no right to monopolize it for such a thing, especially when the Church positions on these things are there if you dig for them.

@fmf said
So what you are basically arguing is that neverending torture by fire is their "just desserts" because it is their "just desserts"?

Actually, I wrote that it is their just deserts

as people who have turned their back on God and have not repented for the sins that they have committed, and therefore have taken on the characteristic of a metaphysical evil.

I should have perhaps written characteristic of metaphysical evil.

For it is evil to believe that one is not accountable to God, and that one does not have to repent. It is the sin of pride, which is identified as Satan's sin (Isaiah 14:13, 14, in case Rajk is reading).

@philokalia said
The result of consciously rejecting Christ and His Teachings is to be denied by Christ, and to be in this hell, and the torment of such is eternal. Why would this be morally incoherent?

What is the moral purpose of such a punishment? I get that you believe that 'it is deserved because it is deserved' but that just an assertion about what you believe and doesn't constitute a moral justification. What would be the moral purpose of STILL torturing the little old lady Ghost of a Duke talked about - for not being "absolutely & totally perfect", as you put it, while she was alive - in, say, 20,000,000 years from now? 200,000,000 years? What is the moral purpose after 2,000,000,000 years?

@philokalia said
Actually, I wrote that it is their just deserts

as people who have turned their back on God and have not repented for the sins that they have committed, and therefore have taken on the characteristic of a metaphysical evil.

I should have perhaps written characteristic of metaphysical evil.

For it is evil to believe that one is not accountabl ...[text shortened]... is the sin of pride, which is identified as Satan's sin (Isaiah 14:13, 14, in case Rajk is reading).

'It's evil because it's evil'.

It's deserved because it's deserved'.

'It's their just desserts because it's their just desserts'.

'It is because it is'.

Is this all you've got? Did "arguments" like these help convert you to the Greek Orthodox Church recently?

@fmf said
What is the moral purpose of such a punishment? I get that you believe that 'it is deserved because it is deserved' but that just an assertion about what you believe and doesn't constitute a moral justification. What would be the moral purpose of STILL torturing the little old lady Ghost of a Duke talked about - for not being "absolutely & totally perfect", as you put it, while s ...[text shortened]... , 20,000,000 years from now? 200,000,000 years? What is the moral purpose after 2,000,000,000 years?

She has rejected God, consciously and with a sober mind, and she has also not repented of her sins to God, and thus she deserves the punishment.

Just as how it is right to love the mother who cared for you as a mother in the year 900 and as it is int he year 1900, it is just for someone who has chosen to reject God and who has not repented for their sins to go where the worm never dies and the fire is never quenched (Mark 9:48).

The reward that is right for the action, and the punishment that the action merits, do not change based on the year.

@philokalia said
For it is evil to believe that one is not accountable to God, and that one does not have to repent. It is the sin of pride, which is identified as Satan's sin

What is the moral purpose of burning someone in flames for eternity for this being "accountable to God"?

@fmf said
'It's evil because it's evil'.

It's deserved because it's deserved'.

'It's their just desserts because it's their just desserts'.

'It is because it is'.

Is this all you've got? Did "arguments" like these help convert you to the Greek Orthodox Church recently?

By continuously deleting, ignoring, and replacing my words, you aren't actually changing what has been said or making an argument.

@philokalia said
I am sorry, but I spend the time I do get with my spiritual father discussing things pertinent to me, and there is not enough time to throw out questions that I do not find relevant to that.

He's a spiritual father to thousands of others as well, both directly and indirectly, and I value his time and have no right to monopolize it for such a thing, especially when the Church positions on these things are there if you dig for them.

There is no biblical support for an immortal soul. Your church preaches false doctrines.

@philokalia said
She has rejected God, consciously and with a sober mind, and she has also not repented of her sins to God, and thus she deserves the punishment.

'She deserves the punishment because she deserves the punishment', that's the long and short of what you are asserting, right?

Do you not see what you are doing?

@philokalia said
By continuously deleting, ignoring, and replacing my words, you aren't actually changing what has been said or making an argument.

The "argument" you are making is nothing more than this: 'It's evil because it's evil'. It's deserved because it's deserved'. 'It's their just desserts because it's their just desserts'. 'It is because it is'. This is essentially a dodge.